Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Well, good day, everyone, and welcome to the Cutting Edge Install Podcast brought to you by Omni Cubed, where innovation meets installation. And today, with my guest, that could literally be anything in between. This is going to be a good one. I'm your host, Merv Campbell, and it's an absolute pleasure to have you with us. What's this all about? If you've never been here, go watch what's come before and like and follow what comes after. But it's about celebrating. We live in days where encouragement and looking after those who are doing fantastic jobs are top on my radar and many others. So we want to celebrate. We want to celebrate the pros, we want to celebrate installers, we want to celebrate our experts. And basically we've got one of the most celebrated people that we want to talk to today. So it's going to be legit. We're going to dive into stories, we're going to share insights, we're going to have fun. I hope there's a lot of laughter.
It's a Thursday when I'm recording this. It's the end of a week.
We're going to lighten the mood. So whether you're on the job, whether you're on the road or you're just looking to stay sharp, you have come to the right place. So let's get cracking. Jeff, it's a privilege to have you on here. For those of you who don't know anything about you, it's their first time clapping eyes on you. Tell us about yourself, a little bit about your background and how you got started in the glass industry.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Well, first off, thanks for having me. I completely appreciate it. I love your opening. I love the fact that you talked about celebrating because there's, I'll get more into that as we go along, but there's nothing that I like more in any role I've ever been in is celebrating the work that people do, particularly with the company. I work for, Guardian Glass, we're all about celebrating the work that our, our, our partners do in this industry. So, you know, how I got into this is. I'll give you the long winded Andrew Herring story. I'll start with.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: There you go. Go for it.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Working through insemination and all that stuff.
No, my, you know, a lot of my, my background was in marketing, retail management and that sort of thing. And, you know, as companies come and go, you end up changing, shifting direction. So I ended up actually getting into the construction industry through flooring. So I was on the sales side of things. I was working with tile distribution, I eventually got into flooring in the sense of carpet, hardwood laminate, all that kind of stuff. Learning how those products worked, how they get installed, being a whole part of that industry.
And then eventually, because of that knowledge base that I had, I transitioned into working for a building developer on a multi unit residential project on a middle of a high rise, on his own multi million dollar home, which was just next level.
But through all of that was a lot of research and dealing with the different vendors and the different products. So when you're, you know, setting up a show home, whether or not you're, you're dealing with the owners of the homes that are buying the condos and the townhouses and you're doing the walkthroughs, when you're at that level where you're looking at a set of drawings and you're deciding, do we use double drywall here or do we save a few pennies and go single drywall? Like whatever you're doing, I not only got to be involved in that process, but see the pitfalls of doing walkthroughs with homeowners. And you know those pictures of the toilet where the door opens over top of the toilet?
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Yep. Oh yeah.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Very close to scenarios like that new construction.
So it was a fascinating thing to be a part of. I leveraged that into being hired on by one of the most interesting companies I've ever worked for, which was doing.
Initially, the focus when I started was doing biohazardous recovery and cleanup.
So imagine your car gets stolen and it goes to your insurance broker and they go, oh geez, I don't want to enter into this car because I don't know what's happened with it. So we would come out, we would inspect it, we would clear any hazards out of it and then give it back to the estimator so it was safe for them to go into.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: That was like one of the core components of the business.
The thing that I got to focus on was doing mold inspection and remediation.
And part of what that. Oh, oh yes. There are stories. You know, I feel like if this was a totally different topic, I could go into some things that would blow your mind. But we dealt with things like meth labs and grow ops and oh brother, all sorts of things. So again, understanding how a building is constructed and knowing how to, to rip it apart, to find where things are hiding, so forth was. I had an absolute passion for it.
Over a course of a number of years working in that industry, I had the privilege of Being able to fly out to Panama and do an air quality inspection for indoor air quality inspection for the United Nations.
Spent a week there studying the inside of the building, seeing what the air particulate levels were looking for, mold, all that kind of stuff.
And winning a Consumer Choice Award for the work that I did. And then actually also having somebody coined me as the Mike Holmes of the mold inspection industry. If you know who Mike is, his whole thing is about making it right. And that was a lot of my philosophy.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: So Circuit down the Road company didn't last.
Won't get into the details on that. But that helped me transition into running my own business for a couple years, doing the inspections and the remediations.
I coupled that with being a entertainment industry guru as such, basically being a dj. So I was a dj. There you go. Doing parties and weddings and things like that.
I was very prolific. As much as I like to think I'm prolific in the glass industry, as prolific in the karaoke industry.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: As a karaoke dj, I was a contestant. I won a bunch of awards, yada, yada yada.
That was all fun and games until Covid hit. And then Covid made me sideline that. That business. But that overlapped with my introduction or my entry into the glazing industry. So.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Back when I decided to kind of wind down my own company, just found, you know, it's. It's tough to run your own business and sometimes it's better when you're under the umbrella of somebody else's. So.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, big time.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: I just applied for a job for. To be a sales rep for a glass fabricator. And I went in, I talked with them. I kind of. I liked what they were talking about. And like any good salesperson, you reinvent yourself.
So one of the things that they liked was the fact that they went online and they saw my, you know, my performance in karaoke contests and things like that. So I knew that I was able to put myself out there. They knew I was able to publicly speak.
And that was a real driver towards them kind of going, you know, we think this guy's got character and he could. He could go a long way to helping us out. So I got on board with them back in June of 2015 and worked my way through railings and shower doors, residential glazing into the commercial segment.
Did that for seven and a half years until Koch Industries, who's the parent company of Guardian Glass, knocked on the door and said, hey, how are you doing? We got this position in the Pacific Northwest, are you interested? And I thought, I'm not looking to go anywhere. I like what I'm doing. Why don't I just kick the can and see what this is all about?
Probably about, I don't know, 350 interviews later, which almost feels like because you, you start HR interviews you, then they go, hey, let's get the person who will be your boss to interview you. And then their boss and their boss.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: And then they had me go down to Seattle, which was amusing because like any organization that has a national, if not an international or global footprint, when you start to bring people on from another country, you think, oh, we have to fly them down. Well, yeah, here's your stipend here. You know, get a hotel, you know, food, all this stuff. I'm like, whoa, whoa. I'm in Vancouver, so I'm two and a half hours down the road from Seattle. Where, where you want to have this meeting. I'll fly down, I'll get a hotel, you pay for all my, whatever you need. I think I'll just drive down in the dead of winter and, and risk storms. So anyways, I went down there, did a 45 minute presentation on, on how to, to resource information from, from any source you could find. So I mean that was certainly one of the things that I love doing was finding the bits of information in this industry that are seemingly not easy to find and presenting that to them as just a way of showcasing my skillset of being able to speak to people.
So after that, got hired on with the company, became the Pacific Northwest Architectural Design manager, which is a mouthful.
Then I get to explain to people that I covered the area of Alaska, bc, Alberta, Washington, Oregon, Iowa State.
And then I'm like, well how about I just take on, you know, Manitoba and Saskatchewan because they need some.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Sure, why not roll it all into one.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: And nobody's up in the Yukon or the Northwest territory. So how about I help them out a little bit?
[00:09:20] Speaker A: Oh my goodness.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: And so started, you know, obviously doing that and over the course of, of that, that time, the one thing that I got really involved in, and I'm sure we'll talk about this is into the, the bird friendly glass solutions side of things.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: So I really honed like I dove into this like with both wings out. And as I got going into this.
Exactly right.
You know, a lot of what I've tried to do is just be forward facing, be an industry professional, somebody that people know who I am and understand who I am so that they know somebody to Contact. So I leveraged a lot of that into about six months ago doing sort of a hybrid role in this architectural design manager role paired with being the regional architectural manager for a team down in California.
And then here we are, it's January, and now I'm the regional architectural design manager for Central and Western North America. So now I've got a team under me all across this beautiful land on both sides of the border, which can make things incredibly challenging, but can make things incredibly exciting at the same time.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, big time. So really the bigger title is Glutton for Punishment is the bigger title that you really should call yourself, to be honest.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I mean, it's hard not to start every conversation when somebody goes, how are you doing? I'm like, just stick the fire hose in my face. Right. I'm drinking constantly from it. Yeah, totally.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: Bring it on. What else can you hit me with? Come on, there's gotta be something else I could do.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Oh, I know, right? Yeah, it's just add more and more and more.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, obviously in your role, which is. Seems multiple roles at this point, but you've talked to a lot of people, like a lot of different people about different, you know, sort of difficult, glazing topics that are complex, that are hard to work around. But what kind of drew you to like, the educational side, like training people and helping them and getting them, you know, up to, as it were, the standard?
[00:11:24] Speaker B: You know, I wouldn't say that this is where it initially started from, but I think. I think as I was thinking about it, it was something that probably initiated. I didn't want to be a school teacher, but I wanted to be a music teacher. So I went. I got my diploma in marketing. And at some point I thought, you know, I really have a passion for music. Like, my. My motto was, I can't remember what the full thing was, but it was basically affecting. Educating. Affecting people for music.
So I went through about a semester of just getting some background courses.
And then over the course of a summer, I taught myself music theory and so that I could apply to get in this program in jazz studies at a college out here. And I managed to get in. And the unfortunate part was that probably about a month and a month and a half in, my mother passed away. And I was 25, she was 60.
Um, and that had a profound impact upon my health and my mental stability and all that kind of stuff around that. So I found that even though I was doing well in the program, it was having a physical effect upon myself. So I had to step away from it and determine what was going on with my health. And a lot of it was, it was grief based.
So I still really like that educational component. And as I move through different roles, whether it was in retail or as I was getting into this space of doing walkthroughs with homeowners to explain things to them, there's that educational component to that, one on one.
And it really, really became evident when I got into the mold industry because you walk into somebody's home and they basically brought you in to say, find what it is that's either making me sick or find what it's in what's in my home that's gonna deter somebody from buying it. So you have to walk in and you'd have to assess everything around them and right down to the point where you'd have to educate them on what that candle is doing or, you know, what's going on with your fans in your house and humidity like that. So I loved not only educating homeowners on that, but educating the team that I was working with on that.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: And so when I got into working in the fabrication industry with glass, it was a, it was a huge learning curve in terms of, like, they brought me on board in part because I, aside from, you know, being able to be, you know, this wonderful person who can, you know, have a lot of fun with people, engage with them like any salesperson should.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: But the mold component with windows is huge to some huge. So understanding that and being able to educate people on that was a big component of that. And when I was dealing with glass fabrication, educating glazers on the products themselves was always interesting because we were not the go to of choice for the products that we were selling.
So I have to educate them on that. Then I'd have to educate them on certain aspects of manufacturing, what works, what doesn't, how we put, how we make the sausage. Right. And in turn educate me on their stuff. So the more knowledge you get, the more of a resource you, you become. And when you hit, when we hit Covid, one of the most interesting parts of that was constantly trying to stay on top of what was causing this supply chain issue, these cost increase, all these things, and then educate people on that component. So it was a never ending, constant educational process.
And it just seemed like when Guardian came along and said, do you want to do this with architects and lasers and fabricators? I was like, absolutely, because that's what I enjoy doing.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Totally. That's what gets you up in the morning.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: That's what keeps the wind in the seal. Well, you kind of talked about witty banter about bringing passion, which is awesome. I'm the very same. I like a good laugh.
You need to fight some things with humor sometimes.
But what keeps you energized, what keeps you excited about this workspace, what continues to put wind in Jeff Seales, I.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Think a lot of it is the. Is the community aspect of it. If you ever watched Godfather, which I'm sure you have.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: That famous line about, you know, I tried to leave pulled me back in.
That's exactly what it's like when people are in this industry is people try to leave, but they can't. But a lot of people also know that they've built up all this incredible knowledge that to try and either take that somewhere else or just leave seems virtually impossible.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: You know, part of what I love is the fact that when you get involved in the industry, there's. There's people.
Like, I grew up here in Vancouver, so the people that I knew were the people that I knew. It was the different people that worked for Fabricators and Glazers, and you got to know them at the event, different events you'd see them at.
And so you had that. That community, then leveraged that into. Into this role where it expanded further out into, you know, people obviously all over the Pacific Northwest.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: And that became my larger community, you know, so much so to the point that I can go to specifier events and architecture events and. And meet Glazers that you recognize. And you don't see them as often as you would the people that are in your own market when you were just in your market, but they become your colleagues, your friends, your people that you go. It's like going to reunions or. Yeah, hey, how's it going? What's going on in your market?
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: And now stretch that across half of the United States and Canada and people like yourselves and people that are doing the same sort of thing on the east coast and Central and whatnot. Again, they all were all talking the same language, because, let's face it, you probably know this as well. When you drive down the road and you turn to your family in the car, if you have a family, I don't want to presume, but you say to them, I did that project. They go, that's nice. Where's the next in and out burger? I'm hungry.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I did the Totally Burger too.
But, you know, you. You. You see these projects, and if you're. You're part of them, you're excited about it. And yeah, you see a defect or a flaw or something, you want to share that knowledge with them and they don't care.
You're so passionate about it that you, you can drive around with your colleagues or just talk about, hey, do you remember that project down there? And they're like, yeah, yeah, I totally remember. It's got the, this glass and the so and so. You're like, I totally get it. We have our own language. It's all. You've got your inside jokes and it. And it's something that you. I'm sure every industry has it, but it's pretty special because we are an under.
A lot of people say we're an under recognized trade in that kids don't grow up wanting to become glazers and if they do, because their parents said, come sweep the shop and now I'm gonna put you on the cutting table. And they got roped and telling. Yep. And it goes on like that. And a lot of fabricators are family based, so you've got that within the glazers themselves as well. You just bring people up, the next generation, those that come in, like me, who came upon it almost by error, by mistake, by design. Because of course I applied for it, but it wasn't something. I woke up at the age of 18, 17, out of high school, and.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Said, glass, that's what I'm going to do.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: So, you know, I'm always celebrating and championing it and hoping that we can bring more people into this industry because we need it.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Totally, totally. Well, in the industry.
We're going to kind of talk a little bit now about birds.
We all love birds.
We like to look at them and it's very sad when they're on the ground and they have been taken away from us.
Um, so you're very, you know, you're pushing bird friendly glass.
Why. Why for you is that such an important topic right now?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: You know, that education component is really, it's funny. That's what got me into this realm of bird friendly glass. So as a, as a fabricator, you always have people coming to you asking you for something that either doesn't exist or they don't know what to do with it. You do a little bit more research, you find out all the, all the nuts and bolts of it and you present it to your client. And the one thing that stood out for me was a particular project where the, the architect decided, hey, we're going to put lowy on this surface and we're going to put your bird friendly over here.
And I'm like, no, no, no, you got to put the bird friendly on Surface 1. That is the perfect place for it. That's where the birds are going to see it creates the greatest contrast, so.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: On and so forth.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Now you got to move your low E further into the triple igu. And for those of you who are in the United States that don't know what a triple IGU means, Three lights of glass explain it. Low U value, super important in northern climates, right?
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: But basically, yeah. So they said, yeah, we're good to go. This is great. Thank you so much. Put out an RFI to everybody. Basically said, look, this is what we're doing.
Go forth. Six months later, I start to see quote requests and they've taken the bird friendly and they've moved it further into the IGU because they needed the lowee closer to the outside to create performance.
At the time, you probably wouldn't see a proliferation of options out there. So it was the closest thing they could do to try and achieve what they were trying to do, which was check a box as opposed to what is the efficacy of the bird friendly component in here versus the thermal performance.
And I was not devastated that all of a sudden this spec became bastardized and all of a sudden all these quotes are coming out. I declined the project because my biggest concern was that if you need to. This is before I knew what the concept of a material threat factor was, which is the efficacy of the bird friendly pattern to reduce the number of birds impacting the glass relative to them flying towards a clear pane of glass and all of them hitting the glass.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: I just thought, wow, if you're trying to save the birds and this isn't going to be effective, what's the blowback on me when I sold you that unit and you say it's still killing birds.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: So I carried that through in every conversation I had with people about bird friendly glass. And then when I got on this side of the fence, the passion around that story amplified once I knew more and more about the product that was out there. So not only the products that are there, it's the use of the products. It's educating people on what it means to make something bird friendly.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: And that's really like, that's where it began. And I just went from there.
Yeah.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Awesome. Good stuff. Well, for those who are maybe naive to these things or like I said, I think I said in a previous podcast with someone that, you know, you and I look at glass and are like, wow, so pretty.
Other people look at it and go, wow, it's kind of dirty. You think you would clean it. So you're like, geez, come on, explain. Then explain to people who don't know, what's the technology behind bird friendly glass?
How does it actually work to prevent collisions?
[00:22:39] Speaker B: It is, it is multifaceted and a lot of it comes down to the project you're building, where you're building it, what is the local bird population, what's the migrating per population?
And they all have, forgive the pun, an impact on how you choose the glass you're going to use, the patterns you use. Because the, the way that the technology, and I don't want to presume that I know what the base level, initial glint in a mother's eye concept was of bird from the glass. But the pattern that most people understand is the concept of 2 by 4. It's 2 inches high, 4 inches across. Birds don't like to fly into a space smaller than their body.
There's an image that I like to use when I do my presentations of the guy dressed in the prison outfit who's trying to push his way through the bathroom window to escape from the police. They can't fit. So he gets stuck and then the cops pull him out and take him to jail.
Birds don't do that. Birds kind of understand that if I'm looking at a space this big, can I, can I not? And if they can't, they're not going to fly through it. So two by four pattern was good until testing agencies came out and said, wait, we've got smaller birds that are flying through that space or trying to. So they came up with more of a 2 by 2 inch pattern. So that was, that's really sort of the core basis of bird friendly products is that you need to have a contrasting pattern that a bird is going to recognize and fly away from it. Where that comes into with what we call the material threat factor or threat factor is that out of 100 birds that you, you test flying down, let's say in a tunnel test, they're flying towards clear glass on one side, pattern glass on the other side.
If 30% of those birds are fewer, fly towards the pattern glass, it's effective.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Now you can have a product that tests with a material factor for a factor of 3025 may not kill any birds.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: But it has to fit within some form of criteria.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: So when we take a product and we decide, okay, what's going to be effective, Is it going to be something that's a first surface, second surface, Is it a frit, is it an edge, is it a UV product? What level of visibility can it achieve?
You can have your, your sort of, your metrics associated with that for your performance and for your. Whether or not the product is going to work in an environment where you might have songbirds or whether or not you're dealing with doves or pigeons or, or warblers or whatnot. Whatever type of birds.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: What does the building owner want to.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: So how are you incorporating the product into their desires? How are you convincing them that that product is the right one and this product won't work? That it's not just checking off a box, that you've actually gone through the process of determining if, if this product is going to work at this part of the building, that part of the building, which parts of the buildings are at the highest risk and how are you incorporating that with other things like landscaping and lighting and building design and then coming out with a plan. So if you just say I want a bird friendly building, give me the stuff that's got all the brightest dots on it possible whatsoever might work.
But are you doing a whole building or part of a building, you know, is when it comes to certain products like uv, there's certain birds that can't be in that spectrum where we, we can't see it and everything else in between.
I think probably one of the biggest things about that educational component is not only when we go into architect firms must we speak at that sort of base level of industry knowledge of what it's all about and not be specific to your product in and of itself. But as an industry, we all celebrate this as something that works, as something that we want to see more of. So if you put it with your product and that building and it works, and there's a great story around it will applaud that. Same with if I put something in a building and my competitors applaud that because it's, it's moving the narrative forward. It's, it's continuing the conversation that not even so much from a dollar standpoint of trying to create this high value added product that makes a company more money.
At the end of the day, I don't look at these presentations or the conversations I'm having with these people based on that. It's about what's your PR campaign around this building? What is it that you're doing to help an ecological disaster that's going on right now. And how I celebrate your story around what you're doing when you're apart.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Totally. That's awesome. That's very helpful. I kind of took up one of the questions there. When we're talking about kind of the look and the aesthetics of things and you know, everybody like wants something to look a certain way. It's like when you go pick out a car, it's like, you know, you get the booklet and it's like, what color would you like? That is if you buy a new car, which I don't recommend because once you turn the key, it's a lot of money wasted. But you get the point. It's like your house. You want to paint your house, what color will you paint it? Well, there's a whole different look and each person's different. But yeah, it's very important to understand those things. But like, in your opinion, where do you see, like the biggest gaps in understanding when it comes to bird friendly glass in the field or even during specifications?
[00:28:03] Speaker B: I think a lot of it is, is surface location. Because there's that component that you're saying, you check a box and you're good to go. You put in the specification, you make it open spec, you say as long as it meets two by two, we're good to go.
Or two by four, if you're kind of going with, with the older sort of thinking.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: But mm.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: It's when somebody decides that they want to just go bird friendly and they rely upon a fabricator to say what products they have. And pricing comes down to Glazer. Glazer. Everybody goes and installs it. And then what happens is, is you end up finding that product that you think is going to be the be all in. It's exactly what you wanted.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: It.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: It checks all the boxes within your, your aesthetics and what the product says it's going to do.
But then you stick it in a building and all of a sudden the birds are still impacting the glass. Yeah. And now what you've done is you've gone with a product that you thought had maybe the least amount of visibility, and now you have to put something with the most amount of visibility on it to retrofit it.
So every conversation I have with people now, again, I'm the architectural design manager, I'm the person that starts the conversation. I can answer, let's say, I'll even say as low as 25% of the questions because I don't know what birds are in Santa Ana, California. I don't know what birds are in Phoenix, Arizona. What are up in Calgary, Alberta. But I can look them up and I can get a sense of who's going to be which birds are there all the time and which ones are at risk all year round, or with those, I instantly, before I even continue the conversation after that, I'm like, look, let's get our bird friendly expert on who's been doing this for over 20 years, who's been with us for a few years. But her, her goal has always been bird collisions. Her name is Heidi Trudell, she is a phenom in this industry for bird collisions. And I go to her for that information. I bring her into the conversation what you could hope to achieve, like a 15 minute conversation easily goes an hour because there's so many stories associated with it. And so bringing her into the conversation means that even when I've got a client that goes, I want to have UV which has low human visibility so that when people come to my chalet and they spend 500 to 1,000 bucks a night, they don't see a pattern outside, right?
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: And then, you know, if they install that and it doesn't work because birds in that native area don't see the pattern.
[00:30:30] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Now you've got bird impacts and you've got people living in the building going, you know that PR campaign you said that said birds don't pit your building and you're a bird friendly building, so forth. Now you've got a problem. And I'm finding more and more that as I, as I relate this to a PR issue which we've seen happen over the last couple of years where there's been high profile projects that either omitted it or omitted it because it didn't exist 30, 40 years ago, are now in scenarios where they have to address it because people are pointing a finger at them. And we're always trying to mitigate that from day one when we're helping people design buildings. So we don't want you to be in that position.
And some people will say, look, I'm building something that I want people to know. This is a bird friendly building. That's my PR campaign.
Look what we did.
Deal with the dots on it. That's what it means to do that. And I always equate it to things like if you have a house that has a single pane piece of glass on it, you're like, okay, well that's fine, that's my glass. Now I tell you to put another piece of glass in front of it, you go, whoa, telling me to look through Two pieces of glass, that's unheard of. I don't understand what you're talking about. That's absurd. It's bizarre. And so then they go, but wait, now I'm going to put a low E coating on it, which is going to improve your thermal performance. They go, but is that going to impede my view? Well, it might change the color of the glass a little bit. Oh, you're blowing my mind here. I don't want that. Yeah, I don't want this. Now, now, now I'm going to throw you for a loop. I'm going to tint it or I'm going to make it a triple Igu or I'm going to laminate it. I'm going to do any number of things and I'm going to put a little tempered logo in the bottom corner of that.
Get used to it. And you know what?
So any, any piece of technology that we come up with that not only improves, whether or not it's, it's our ecosystem sustainability or just even our, our ability as human beings to, to reduce our carbon footprint, to make more energy efficient buildings, if we have to put up with something, I guarantee you we've done it before, we can do it again.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Well, we'll do it and we'll do it again for sure.
That's awesome.
Okay, so we kind of talked a little bit there about people making boo boos and mistakes.
But on the flip side, there are times when we can stand back and look at something and go to your point. Earlier I made that I was part of that project.
Is there something, whether that be a project, whether that be a, you know, eureka moment or something that was a breakthrough or that really stands out in your career as one of those.
That was me. I own it. And I'm proud that my name is associated with that. Oh, wow.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: That's like the floodgates. Holy cows.
You know, in my glazing career or any part of my career, I mean, honestly, the United nations, let's just take.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: The high points of each one of them because I really like to know the karaoke one, to be quite honest.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Oh, I was going to say it was the time where I did a really good job delivering my newspapers at the age of 10 in under 30 minutes in my neighborhood. I thought that was.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: There you go. See?
[00:33:34] Speaker B: See? Yeah, but it is. I mean, every, everything to me is mostly related around the customer sales component. Yeah. The comments that people come back with, it's the kudos and whatnot. When you're doing a Good job. And I think probably in this particular industry, I mean, it happens almost just on a regular basis. It's hard to kind of to pinpoint one because I can drive down and look at amazing buildings that I've been involved in in some way, shape or form.
It is just part of the glazing facade. Yeah, everybody else is doing a much more amazing job of what it is they're actually doing to install it.
Whether or not it's. It's just the glass install or the components around it, the architects that are doing amazing work on those things, just to even have a snippet of involvement in those conversations to me is, you know, gives him pride, gives me. It makes me feel good about what I do. Because a building could either look so much worse or perform so much worse. And particularly, like I said, in the realm of bird friendly glass, it's probably the one that gives me the most, elevates me at that point. And some of those moments are not even associated with the brand new building. It's walking up to the building with the pre existing glass, the pre existing bird friendly pattern. And yet somewhere on that glass or nearby, there's a Big bird imprint. And I showcase how this mistake here resulted in this. And this is how you can fix that problem, by starting with the right information and doing it right the first time. So those education pieces lead to the next job, which becomes part, you know, part and parcel of what I celebrate too. But it is such a long process. You know, in my particular neck of the woods, projects don't suddenly show up on the map. And they're built within, you know, 6 to 12 months, 18 months, 36 months. I mean, that's a very long Runway.
Where I live here in Vancouver, some projects, I mean, we could have designed it five years ago. And now we're just getting to that point where they go, all right, we're ready to pull the trigger because we can afford to do it. Yeah, this revision and that revision and so on and so forth.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: Yeah, all the rest. So awesome.
Cool. Well, curiosity's got the better of me, but what is your karaoke song that you like to sing the most when you are in your heyday?
[00:35:56] Speaker B: You know, that's a funny question. A lot of people ask me that question and I always draw a blank. It's like when you walk up and they go, well, what do you want to sing? I'm like, I don't know.
I used to have a catalog that I just would always reference in my phone. And it was all the Songs that I would sing anywhere from, you know, songs by you two to actually here, here's my favorite. And I will. This is the most recent award winning karaoke performance you'll never suspect.
It was the song angel by Sarah McLachlan.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: And I sang that on a Royal Caribbean cruise in a karaoke contest.
Shut the house down.
[00:36:37] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Look at you go now. Now, conversely, I, I, I qualified here in, in Vancouver in British Columbia to represent one of the people to represent British Columbia in the Canadian carry Canadian leg of the World Karaoke Championship way. And I didn't even crack the top 25. It was ridiculous, the quality that was there.
I like to blame it on the fact that it was Calgary. It was arid my voice.
That was the only reason why.
But no, the quality of singers there were. I, even on my best day, I couldn't crack the top five. It was phenomenal.
The winners of that get to go. Got to. Well, they were supposed to go to Thailand to represent Canada and then the, the queen, I believe it was in Thailand, passed away. So then they had to go into a state of mourning and it like a week before the, the World Karaoke Championship, so they had to put that on pause, so.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: Oh, bummer.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that sucks.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: Well, I'm a Celine Dion fan, so.
Yeah. Any songs? I hope none of my family watch this podcast or I'll get laughed out of the house. But yeah, that's, that's where it's at. That's what's happening. So, you know, whatever.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm trying to contain myself from singing for you right now.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: I, I am too. Because it's like, I think if I was to start. You may start and this podcast could go a totally different direction. That, What a sausi.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: An interesting story. So when I got into this, this role, we had our, the Canadian Fenestration Association. So Fenestration Canada had this conference and we went out and had a karaoke night and I got up and I sang, you know, business time by flight to the con.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: Uhhuh.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: I got up and I sang that and just.
Yeah, it was, it was insane. Right? So. Okay. That became my legacy for the next year, the next conference where we didn't have any karaoke.
And then another year goes by and we're in Halifax, Nova Scotia for the next conference and they, they set up the karaoke and I knew this was coming, so I took the song.
Asshole. Do you have to bleep that out?
[00:38:54] Speaker A: Well, we could, we'll see.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: Okay. If not, I'll say It again, the song Sorry by Dennis Leary. And he.
I was testing your bleepers to see how well they work.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go.
[00:39:07] Speaker B: And so he. That song, of course, is what came around. And I think it was the 90s. And I took the lyrics to that and I manipulated them to be glass hole around the music industry.
Went up and sang that one. And if you give me a moment. Is it under? Huh?
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Oh, he's won some award here.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: If you hear all the bangings. Because I am literally dropping things all over the place. It won me the event's most valuable member for Fenistry.
[00:39:35] Speaker A: Oh, my word, that is brilliant. Look at.
Oh, there we are.
So we actually on this podcast, Celebrate Pro. See, See, here it is.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: I am not ashamed to put myself out there in any way, shape or form that allows me to bring that back to what I truly tried to do, which is educate people on glass.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: Well, let's try to re and all us back in a little bit. Okay.
Okay. Now we get sort of serious and. Yeah, whatever. But you know, and all. Yeah, there we go. Get it going.
Obviously, solar in California. Yeah, let's not talk about that. But what are some solutions or what are like best practices to optimize both solar and bird safety within a single spec, in your opinion?
[00:40:29] Speaker B: Well, I mean, that main component, you've got probably four different things that you're looking at. Anytime you're looking at glazing and facade, you're looking at what's the code.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: So it's.
[00:40:39] Speaker B: You need to do what are the aesthetics you're after?
I think there's one. There's definitely one other thing in there. It's just escaping my mind at the moment. I can see the visual in front of me. But the, you know, last thing comes down to pricing. So. Yeah, when you come out for. Or yeah, see aesthetics code. Yeah. Anyways, the thermal performance of the glass obviously has to hit a certain code requirement. Right. So when you're in Southern California and you have to have a low solar heat gain, that means that you're almost always 100%. You've got to have your low E on surface number two, insulated glazing unit, because that's blocking the heat from coming in.
The second you move that low coating to surface number three, you're going to increase your solar heat gain by say, 10 to 15 points, hitting whatever the prescriptive target is.
Unless you've energy modeled the whole building to account for that, you know, you're going to be in trouble. So the only other way you get around it is by having your bird friendly pattern on one or two of a laminated outboard with your lowy on surface number four facing the airspace. So there's ways to work around it. But if you don't have the budget and you don't have the interest in lamy, then now you have to move into a product that can be on surface number one with its bird friendly coatings, etch, whatever it is, and have the low E on surface number two. So that's part of, you know, putting that code together with whatever your prescriptive values are for solar heat gain, marrying that with the bird friendly component and coming up with a solution. So like case in point for us is we have two, two main segments. We have UV glass and you have etched glass. Then the other one out there of course is frit. And then you've got aftermarket product film products that we don't deal with. But the first two, the UV and the etch give you options and within those options you have other options.
You know, we're just about to release a product now that improves cut loss, yield very low visibility, has this really cool pattern to it that fits a certain niche part of the market. And then later on this year we've got yet another product that's just going to completely revolutionize bird friendly glass. But each one of these is going to fit within a certain target market to basically say, look, I want a price point here, so that puts you into this product. But I want, my client wants this and that and you put them all together, marry it with whatever the thermal performance is. Now look at your budget. And of course the key with anything is you never, you never take a look at a quote with no bird friendly. Yeah. And then advert friendly. Because if you're at the value engineering stage at that point you're going to get rid of the bird friendly if you don't have to. It's just. Oh yeah, it's nature, it's human nature. Yeah. If you look at it as a percentage of the overall cost of the project, it is fractional. So at that point you're designing it. Then you're now also at the part where you're designing your glazing facade, where your glass is where you need it, based on landscaping, lighting, all that wonderful stuff. But you can do it at that point where maybe you just change the orientation of the facade, maybe you change this component or that. Maybe you don't put that tree so close, maybe you put one with a Shorter canopy, whatever it is that you're doing, you have the ability to influence that cost from the beginning. But it obviously means, like anything, you have to take that holistic approach to design with all the components. And that's certainly one thing where, you know, design build or design assist comes in really handy. Because if everybody's talking the same language at the beginning around these concepts, you don't just throw this out for a quote and then just see what comes back and goes, I don't like that price point.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: Forget about it.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: That's why I say we celebrate this in our industry as bird friendly professionals, because we want to see this move forward. We need to change the way that we look at it from a design standpoint and where we're at at that, that design stage, when we hit construction documents.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: Yeah, good stuff. Yeah. Communication is key, my friend. It really is. Yeah. We got to. It's something that all of us have to work on from time to time and be reminded that, you know, those first initial conversations are very much important.
They are the foundation for everything that flows. So. Yeah, but from your perspective then, you know, manufacturers, suppliers, kind of everything in between. How do. Because education's like top of mind for you, but in your opinion, how do you educate the field to avoid errors, to avoid misunderstandings? We've kind of hit on open communication. But are there any others that you think are like high points that we should really be focusing on?
[00:45:06] Speaker B: It's definitely the education working not only through the architects, but through the, the fabricators. Because the fabricators have to know where they're getting their product to begin with, and they have to look at their pricing. They have to know how to speak to what it is that they're quoting. So that when the Glazer comes to them and says that's a really high price point. But also looking at, let's say, the apples to apples component of it, because you obviously have different lowy coatings you can substitute or have alternates. If you're too open on your spec for bird friendly glass, how do you get that dialed into one particular product? So everybody's quoting at the same level, but it's also knowing that if you are an architect or fabricator or glazer combined as a team, can you do this project? Is it entirely possible? Like, certainly one of the first conversations I ever had when I got into Guardian was it was a museum near one of our universities and the glass was oversized.
And my recommendation was, look, we will get you a jumbo size in, in this with this particular pattern, this low E coating, but you need to add a million.
And when they finally push came to shove our low, we ended up in the project.
They were able to move it to surface number three because it was up at a certain elevation up in sort of a mountain. University put the. The Fritz on surface number one or two. I can't remember what side they put it on, but they were able to achieve what they needed to with another supplier that was able to offer all of this together without putting that mullion in there. Yeah. So even though it was. It was a Canadian project, it ended up getting fabricated outside of this market to then go to a glazer to install. So if they took my advice and put a mullion in there, it would have looked different, wouldn't have achieved the goal that they were after, but it would have offered more options for people to work in our market. Glazers actually work with local fabricators. So if you get to that point, which I've seen many, many times, where somebody puts a purchase order on the desk and they say, look, this is what I need, and you go, ah, I've told you guys before, I can't do SSG applications with an offset inset that comes to this angle with this size. I just can't do.
Ah, I didn't know.
Yeah, everybody's got to communicate. And that's where I love this. The design build aspect of it is being able to have everybody on the same page. Everybody's honest about what they can and cannot do. So when it comes to tender, you either have it's been designed so that five fabricators can manufacture it, or you're just like, no, this is exactly what I want. That means I can only work with one fabricator in that market. And if everybody's fine with that, they're fine with it. But that's good. Exactly.
[00:47:54] Speaker A: It's all good. Well, coming near the end here, but just a couple more questions.
Obviously, things have changed, and these days it feels like it's changing every hour. You're like, geez, come on. But how do you think the conversation around bird safety, bird safe buildings, how's it evolved and like, what role do you professionals play in that shift?
Should they be, you know, helping?
Because I know some people are not so helpful, others are, but how can we all kind of help around this and move in the One Direction?
[00:48:37] Speaker B: Are you going to sing a One Direction song for me?
[00:48:39] Speaker A: No, I am not.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Okay, then you don't get an answer to that question.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: Well, that's My name.
[00:48:49] Speaker B: Oh, man.
You know, it is an interesting conversation with architects to say, look, I know this is what you want, and I know that a developer has different ideas in mind. So projects that go to the lowest common denominator, they're not concerned about quality, they're not concerned about whatever their environmental impact is, beyond just the fact that the code says, put this in and you're good to go. Yes, those are the ones. You'll never change their mind. It's only when there's a stakeholder involved that says, look, this is what I believe in, or this is where the sensitivity is around this. How can we design around this, and what is this going to cost? And if they, right from the get go, understand what they're doing, why they're doing it, and truly believe in it, it will make its way all the way through to completion.
You know, certainly where I've seen that here in this particular part of the world is with our indigenous communities where they've designed things like elder centers and community centers, you know, fire stations in their, in their areas that have used frit in ways that allows them to use indigenous artwork associated with a bird friendly pattern to achieve a result and look good doing it. And it's incredibly important to them because of course, you know, birds are part of their folklore. It's part of, you know what it just, it's embedded in everything they do.
It's embedded. What we do. We don't recognize it the same way. I mean, I'm a Seahawks fan, but I don't look at the logo and suddenly go, geez, I have to put up some bird friendly glass at Lumen Field.
But I would be the one that would champion that if you'd be the.
[00:50:26] Speaker A: One that would be out there. Let's get her done.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Exactly. So it is something where you have to believe in the cause, you have to understand it. Even if, and I should preface that, even if you don't believe in the cause, but you believe that there is value in doing what you're doing from a PR standpoint, you can win at that level, which helps out at the other level. And not everybody aligns that, that conversation in that point. So I always say to the people, you know what, you start with that conversation and pitch it to them. And if they say, no, you did what you did, if the coach comes in after that and they go, what was that bird friendly stuff you're talking about? You go, yeah, I've got it in my back pocket. It's like where we're at Vacuum insulated glass, Right? Yes. Will. It will revolutionize the way we, we build, particularly up in the north.
It's, it's a game changer. But until you see it put into code, the cost differential to add vacuum insulated glass is a bit too far of a gap for some people to want.
[00:51:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:26] Speaker B: So you're always just trying to keep the narrative going until you're ready for the electric car.
[00:51:31] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: All of a sudden we have the electric car and a lot of people. So if we give it, if it gives the same approach, at some point it's going to stick.
[00:51:40] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it'll jive. What's.
So, you know, we're trying to educate, we're trying to help people and people have some wacky ideas, they have some misconceptions that they think they know, but they don't. Is there one that you love to just debunk and then like smile maybe on the inside, maybe not on the outside because you don't want to come across that way? Or maybe you just laugh at them and go, what a fool. But what's a myth that you just like to love to debunk in these days?
[00:52:16] Speaker B: The one that I've had the most fun with because it does relate to what I do with, with architects constantly, that ends up making its way to the fabricators and glazers and everybody's sending out, you know, RFIs going, so you've put the Lowy on surface two. I get it.
But what's this surface 41 that you're trying to put a low E on? I mean, like, I can't, I can't make a unit. Yeah.
[00:52:39] Speaker A: This big. Yeah.
[00:52:41] Speaker B: Bigger than the wall facade.
Nauseam. And I'm like, oh, that's just because you put a typo with a one after the four. How about you go back and correct it and then you get crickets. And then the next project comes out with the exact same specification on it.
[00:52:56] Speaker A: You're like.
[00:52:56] Speaker B: And you're like. And it's one of those things where it's frustrating.
It creates a lot of work for other people.
But it's that notion that a spec today is the same spec tomorrow. And as we move away from prescriptive modeling, prescriptive codes, and we get more into energy based modeling where we're looking at the entire building. I can have a different low E facing the north. Up here in Vancouver, I can have a single silver facing the north because it gets very little sun over the course of the year. Yes, none. And then my east west myself has to have a better solar heat gain on it.
[00:53:34] Speaker A: Right?
[00:53:34] Speaker B: Yeah, you can play with these things, but you have to know that the building you do today in that location is not the building you did in tomorrow in the next location. So knowing how to look at every project and getting on the phone, email, text, whatever it is, and going, here's the brand new project, tell me what the pitfalls are, tell me what I should do, and then hopefully you don't run into these problems down the road. And I think that's. Yeah, that's probably one of the biggest misconceptions is that you'll always hear that concept of the cut and paste. The cut and paste. We're moving at such a clip with technology these days. And that goes with. It doesn't go with codes. Codes move very slow, but it definitely goes with products because the product that we started with, when I started with, for Bird Friendly with, with Guardian, the nomenclature doesn't exist anymore. The size has increased, the patterns improved, the technology improved. And that's in a span of three years. Whereas it used to be five, six, seven years before you'd see a company release a brand new product. The amount of effort that we put into this necessitates that we now have specifiers that are constantly contacting us to find out what is the next product that's coming out and also to influence us in terms of what it is that they need. Do you need jumbo sizes? Do you need super jumbo? Is it about, you know, harvesting visible light transmission or is it having glasses? Dark as, you know, solar eclipse? Right.
[00:54:58] Speaker A: Whatever your needs are, what do you need? And move with the times.
And like I said earlier, everybody's different and everybody has an opinion and we have to be able to shake and move at some times, stand up and be like, no, can't have that. Here's the reasons. But as long as you give a why, that's one thing we kind of do around here is like, why, why, why? And then you, you have confidence when you go to do it that it's done right. But kind of last, very last question.
I just have to say this has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed this. We haven't sung yet, but there's hope. There is, there's time.
Wherever you are, there you go.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: So I couldn't quite harmonize with you there. But we'll.
That's okay.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll blame the cold. Nothing to do with our abilities. It's totally a cold. I don't have a Cold. So I've got no excuse anyways. But if you could give yourself, if you could get in a DeLorean and go back in time and you could give yourself one bit of advice or even advice to the next generation, obviously there are those that are coming up behind us.
What would it be to yourself as a young person and what would it be to a young person who's following after your footsteps?
[00:56:17] Speaker B: That's a funny question because as I, as I get older and I start to think back of all the different pivot points, so I know exactly the successes and the failures that got me to where I am today.
And what hurt then easily becomes the part of the success story that I have now.
I can't, I can't, you know, dismiss any of it. It all worked. It all worked out.
It's.
But conflicting to that would have been the musical side of me saying, you know what, you know how your dad said go out and get a good job, pays this much an hour? You know, focus on that?
[00:56:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:48] Speaker B: No, dad, I'm going to California and I'm gonna work on this music thing that I've been doing and, and you know, and that's what I'm gonna do. All right, son, we'll be here. The house is here. Right. You know, I wish that I'd had, I'd had that back then. Now I've got, I've got an 18 year old son, he's gonna be 19 in a couple weeks here. And you know, aside from all the many, many, many, many, many lessons that I'd love to give him, you know, the one thing is, is, and I give this to everybody who's, whether or not you're a success in school, whether or not you, you flunk out, whatever it is, you know, there's always a career in glazing. And I say that in part because it's true.
But we are at this part where the advice I would give the kids today is, I mean, if you don't know what you want to do and you needed some, you need a job and you think, well, geez, I don't want to be an apprentice at a, at a trade school and this and that, and I don't want to spend four years and whatever it is that the thing you've got in your head that's telling you it's a long road and I can't possibly do it. I don't think there's a more. And I'll just say this as a self aggrandizing statement. I don't think there is a more welcoming industry.
People that want to learn, absorb that information, are willing to come to work on time, willing to, you know, say, not in this term, not say yes boss, yes boss. But I mean just be like, yes, I will learn from you as opposed to, you know, I didn't feel like coming to work today, boss, but I'll be there tomorrow. Oh yeah, don't worry about it. That's because they can't find anybody. But it's the ones that are willing to work hard that are just willing to learn something and if they like it. You've got a lifelong career. If you don't move on to something else. But these people, this is where they got their start and they're happy doing it. They've learned a ton. Some of them are making a crap ton of money.
[00:58:41] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:58:41] Speaker B: And they can hang their hat on not just, you know, the fact that they, you know, they're a part of that project. But man, you physically put that glass into that building, right? I'm at the other part of the supply chain. But you fit, physically touched, put that in. Yeah, it's like, it's like. I don't know if you've got this in your backyard there, but you look at the power poles and you see the, the hard hat that's basically been attached to the power line. That's where the guy or the girl basically finished all their, their working hours for their apprenticeship and away. Right. We don't do that with glass because it would be very obtrusive to have a hard hat stuck on.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: Weird. Yeah, totally.
[00:59:19] Speaker B: But just etch your initials in the bottom corner. Nobody will see it.
[00:59:22] Speaker A: Yeah, no one will even know. Just put it in there.
[00:59:25] Speaker B: As long as it's in that one inch around the edge that's within the non inspectable area, you're okay.
[00:59:30] Speaker A: You'll be okay.
[00:59:31] Speaker B: You're okay.
[00:59:33] Speaker A: Don't tell people, but yeah, you can do that.
Anyways, Jeff, this has been an absolute privilege and thank you for coming on A Wealth of Knowledge.
Yeah, I've really enjoyed this. It's been great. Thanks for coming on, my friend. I was, yeah, we've had a lot.
[00:59:50] Speaker B: Going to be like, you know, so I've seen all the other podcasts. I mean, you know, I've shared them with my friends.
You know, I've advocated for more people to get on this show now that I've been on it might have changed my mind a little bit. No, I'm seriously, it was a great ton of fun to be on this show.
[01:00:07] Speaker A: Good.
[01:00:08] Speaker B: Love what you're doing. Thank you for championing and every industry across the board that you're doing. And obviously some of the people that I respect in this industry have been on your show. So like I said, kudos for doing what you're doing.
[01:00:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. I enjoy it. It's. As an Irishman, I like a good yarn and it's a lot of fun. And I'm learning. We're growing. We're trying to, you know, celebrate people and champion those who've given a lot to the industry because there are those who have went over and above for many of us and it's so good to be able to give back to them.
They don't ask to come on. We kind of are like, hey, would you please come on? And they're like, well, you know, I'm kind of shy. I don't like the spotlight. And then they get on here and it's like they start singing to you. You know, that's.
[01:00:57] Speaker B: I've seen a couple of the guys that you've been on here. Some of them, they're not shy at all.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: Oh, they are so not shy. They're the complete opposite. But anyways, well, thank you, sir. That is a wrap on this episode of the Cutting Edge. Install if you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow. Subscribe like it. Leave a quick review if you want to. Come on. You've listened till it. Shoot me an email. We'll get you on here.
We're learning, we're growing. Keep an eye out for your crew. Keep them safe. Keep an eye out for the next episode. They drop every other Thursday at 8am Pacific Time. For more about Omnicubed, go On our website omnicubed.com until the next time you hear my dulcet tones.
[01:01:36] Speaker B: Cheerio.
[01:01:37] Speaker A: Stay safe and all the best. Take care.
[01:01:39] Speaker B: Bye.
