Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Cutting Edge Install Podcast brought to you by Omni Cubed, where innovation meets installation and everything literally in between. I'm your host, Merv Campbell, and it's an absolute pleasure to have you with us.
This podcast is about pros and about the extraordinary people who do wonderful things, not only here in the US but across the world. And today we have one of the most recognizable faces in the glass, Mr. Andrew Herring. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show, sir.
We're going to get into some questions, we're going to learn a little bit more about him. So whether you're on the job, whether you're on the road, or you're looking to stay sharp, you've come to the right place. So let's get cracking. Sir, how are you doing?
[00:00:49] Speaker B: I'm doing good. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: Not a problem. It's an absolute pleasure. So for listeners who maybe don't know who you are or maybe vaguely know who you are, can you tell us and me a little bit more about your journey, how you got into the glass industry, how did you get involved in like different organizations and then where you're at today at fhc?
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Oh boy. How much time you got slotted for this?
[00:01:14] Speaker A: We can edit a lot. We can dub my mouths and get it quickly. No, just kidding.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: The trick is getting me to stop talking.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Oh, that'll be good. Go for it.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: I'm a pretty open book.
I've shared just about any story I've got and happy to do more and maybe you'll dig and find find something I haven't brought over yet.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Yep, awesome.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: I have a lot of pent up trauma. I got to work through the glass industry. I don't know, it sounds trite and anyone that's heard me talk about it has probably heard me say it a few times. But I've yet to find a strong argument that counters this philosophy or this.
I guess it's hypothesis.
There's only two entry points to the glass industry.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Either your daddy's daddy did it or it was just sheer happenstance, just random accident. You found it and you fell in love and it's really hard to get out.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: And I'm in the latter. I've got some background in building materials and construction, but if you asked little Andrew if he was going to be in the glass industry, he probably would have said, what the f is the glass industry?
[00:02:29] Speaker A: What's going on here?
[00:02:30] Speaker B: By my parents for. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. So that's I. I kind of stumbled into it in a really roundabout way.
But I mean, I wouldn't have changed any of it. Just learning a lot through the kind of clunky, atypical process or non traditional. Yeah, I grew up, you know, I went to school, I drew. I was an artist or wanted to be an artist. I drew ever since I could hold a pencil as a kid. And so I went to school for art.
Meanwhile, while I was going to school, I always work construction gigs. Construction or demolition.
I like being outside and working with my hands. I was, I was better at demolition than construction. Yeah.
But I always fancied myself or saw a path, something in visual arts. And that kind of dovetailed with marketing, then into graphic design. So I worked construction through school and then got scooped pretty quickly by an architectural firm.
And that was a total luck of the draw. There is too part of the requisite to graduate. If you wanted to walk in the ceremony, you had to attend this career fair and meet with X amount of companies that were there.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: And me total.
Pardon the language. Just a. At the time, it was important for me to walk. I was the only one in my family, the first person to graduate college. And so I wanted to do it for me, for my parents for that. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do this career fair.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: And I just blindly just signed up for the first three companies on the list.
And I showed up, brought my portfolio and just really phoned it in. I had already. I was planning what I was going to do after school and. And I mean, looking back, total idiot. I mean, just the opportunity. I mean, thank goodness or thank whoever you think. You know, the school had that program hardwired in and it was a requisite that you had to get out there and you had to go talk and meet.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Because I mean, otherwise I'd still be, you know, breaking big rocks into smaller rocks with a. With a rivet buster.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: And then one of the companies I met with happened to be a local architectural firm. Well, they're a national now, but ktgy, they were looking to grow their marketing department and they had in house artists there.
And they seemed to find an opportunity for me there. And they, you know, I went in, I went through the motion, showed my stuff, had the chat, got the heck out and was on the drive back and the phone rang already and they said, we want you to come in.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: I was like, wow, that's awesome.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: So, yeah, so I started just working there, doing.
I was doing renderings. For design proposals, just all sorts of their marketing collateral.
And then. And then at the time, the market kind of. This was. What year would this have been? 20.
It was right at one of the big downturns here in the US Economy in the housing market. And they were deeply ingrained on the residential side. And so there was some natural herd thinning that happened there. And so what every company has to do under those circumstances, you know, do more with less. And so I took on more responsibility. I learned how to. I started having to learn how to.
Right. Specifications there. And so, yeah, totally evolved from there.
And then that. That segued into another opportunity. We worked with a design build firm that did environmental graphics and wayfinding JB3D. And so they had a fab shop, but they also had a design department there. And we had worked with them. And so I liked what they were doing, so I went down that path. And it was there that, you know, I was still designing, but it was a fab shop. And so I had to figure out if I wanted something to look like how it looked like on my screen or on my paper.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: I had to learn how to make it. And so, yep, I learned how to do shop drawings there. And.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: And so the one. The one constant in both of those spots is that there was always a C.R. lawrence catalog there.
You know, if you're anywhere adjacent to the glass and glazing game and don't know that name, then, yeah, you've been. You've been doing it wrong.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: And so there was some familiarity there. And then beyond that, I got a call from a colleague and a friend that said, hey, we want you to come down to CRL and talk to us.
Mr. Freeze wants to meet you. And at the time, I said, I don't. I don't. I don't want to go there in Vernon. So it's like an armpit of southeast la, just total industrial zone. And I didn't. I said, I don't know who Mr. Freeze is.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't really.
Yeah.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: Me. My stubbornness has been blessed with people more patient. And I've been given many opportunities to try again or be reminded of said opportunities. And so finally I went down just. And I met the team there. And I met with a man named Don Fries, who was at that point the CEO and chairman of C.R. lawrence. And that. That's a whole nother story.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: To look up there on the books there, or over a beer, I'll gush and tell you everything I know. But again, still not 100% sold on the glass industry or CRL or anything at all. But that experience opened my eyes. Just, I saw how he ran the company. I saw just the leadership there. I mean, this was, at that point, he was still, he was a very much, very successful man in the industry.
And you could, you could tell immediately, you know, he, it was, it was an honor to. That he took the time and he spent better part of a day with me.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Just asking me questions and showing me around. He showed me around the whole, the whole compound there. And I was just impressed. I mean, he's. He's the tippy top of that empire.
And he took time with a nobody and he introduced me to everyone. He knew everyone's name, whether they were stocking a shelf, pushing a broom, or, you know, on the executive team, like. And I was, I was impressed by that. And so. Oh, yeah, fast forward. I'm still probably getting too worried wordy with this condenser.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: No, you're good.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: You're good.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: This is awesome. This is good for me, if not even the listeners. I'm enjoying it.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I, at the end, the meeting concluded with something to the effect of, you know, at crl, it's, it's still America and you work hard, you can go somewhere.
And then he said, what are you going to do for me? And I was like, oh, shit, I don't know.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: I don't know what I'm going to do.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: I said, I don't know, but I'm in. Let's figure it out.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: And that kind of, that, that launched me into the glass industry.
Just getting on the glass and glazing supplies and hardware side.
And I started there low man.
You know, it was.
The gift was an opportunity, but beyond that, it was. You had to, you had to work and earn your keep and find your own path to grow. But the path was provided, but you certainly had to duke it out.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: You got to walk it.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: At that point, I was, you know, less gray and weathered. I was, I was still a younger pup.
And so it was, it was a climb. I mean, I went from working in their advertising department, just lowest rung of the ladder there, and then just was given opportunities to prove myself and to provide value or add value.
Ended up starting the architectural business development team there and then inevitably I became the vice president of marketing there. So I was there for about 10 years.
In that, in that span, I learned a lot about the industry, just the supply chain.
Just spending so much time with glazers, glazing, contractors, Just, just learning the game that, that taught me so much of what I've carried with me and is what.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: To wherever I may be now, today.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: So, yeah. Then after, after that, that there's, there's some, some, some. There's some side route stories in there. But I ended up leaving at a time that was good for me.
I'm still thankful for everything that that job provided for me. But there was just circumstances that arose that it was time for me to leave. Just some leadership changes and I didn't want to do harm, but I just knew it wasn't for me there anymore. And so I had some phenomenal relationships with the National Glass Association.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Just being a one. We were a member, we were an advertiser, we were an exhibitor.
I volunteered on some of their committees. Like we helped produce a lot of their technical documents.
And so I had those relationships built in. Yes. And then just word got out that I was, I was available and they reached out and I said, I know this much about associations.
And they said, perfect. We don't want an association guy, we want an industry guy.
And that was good. It was a neutral move that was.
Gave me an opportunity to stay in the industry and move kind of laterally in a way that wasn't going to do harm. I knew I didn't want to be at CRL anymore, but I didn't want to outright, you know, run against them. I could have gotten scooped by any competitor that was ready, you know, leverage me to tear it apart, and I didn't want that. So NGA was a very good, just neutral, neutral position.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: And again, I got to learn so much at NGA because they created a position for me that just put me out there in that world in a way that even opened my eyes to avenues and areas that I hadn't seen totally aware of or well versed in. I mean, just getting to go all over the country, all over the world, seeing all levels, from floaters to fabricators to installers to glazers to everything in between.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Just, I got to meet the world and the world got to meet me.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go.
Bike time.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that was. I was there for almost six years and then I got a call from some of my old colleagues that I had known for many moons and had grown with and worked with and trusted and said it was time to come home. And I've now been with FHC for just a hair over a year now. So I'm back in the for profit side.
Which I, you know, I loved my experience at NGA and with the nonprofit trade association side, but I think I'm a little better suited on this side of the fence, I guess.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Given your wisdom, I got to reunite with a team that there's already baked in trust. I know the playbook, I know the people. And I can enter back into a side of the industry that I had missed a little, but I could immediately hit the ground running. You know, it was. It wasn't.
You know, I'm a. I like. I like loyalty a lot. I'm not, you know, I don't think that's the. The current trend for, for young professionals. You know, it's. It's. It used to be kind of a scarlet letter to see. Look at a resume and see, like every year, every other year, change and Jones.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Now it's. It's kind of the norm. You know, people want to learn more, get exposed more. But I'm, you know, for the right. For the right team, for the right captain can. Carrying the right flag.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: I'll.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: I'll stay and I'll die on any hill.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Preach it, brother. Preach it for sure. Yep. Yep.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: And so it wasn't a big leap. It wasn't. It was. It was. It just. It felt right and it still feels right. So, yeah, I'm back into the glass and glazing supply manufacturing.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Ticket back home.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Back home, as you said. That's so cool.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: That's about as short as I can make that.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Wow.
Where are we at on time?
[00:14:58] Speaker A: We're already 15 years old.
Yeah. If people don't know your history after that. Sorry, we're gonna have to just go get a beer and it's gonna be a whole night experience, so.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. If you wanna know.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah. There you go.
So kind of kind of piggybacking onto that. You mentioned you. How you were like. You were into drawing, you were into, like, art, all of those things.
I'm guessing I'm just throwing this out here. I'm not sure, but a lot of your stickers, a lot of, like, different things you produce. Is that you.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: A lot of it, yeah. So that's been kind of a way for me to kind of combine some of those worlds still.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: So grasping onto some of. Some of the creative outlets that I like, but channeling it into ways that kind of resonate with.
With a glazing and construction audience.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Some of those. If you don't have them, I've got a couple. And a water bottle died Actually in my office that this man produced, they're pretty darn awesome. And they're a little bit out there, some of them. There's one of them particular. It. It kind of looks like a. In a night place, but it's not in a night. But it's legit. I really liked it. So. Yeah, good job, man.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Well, they haven't sued me yet.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. Nor have they given you any. Maybe no free burgers either. So, you know, there's the metal grind. Oh dear. Good stuff. So you're known for freeyas. You have one on your hat currently not at last. Nerd.
How did that come about? How is that part of your identity in the industry? And you know, people tend to know. You kind of buy that phrase. Where on earth did that come from?
[00:16:39] Speaker B: It happens pretty organically. I mean it wasn't like some strategic sit down figuring out some messaging that was going to stick. Yeah. I mean you in this world, in any world and certainly anything with creative outlets, I mean you throw a lot of stuff at the wall and you're not sure what's going to stick and then you just run with what does.
This was.
Yeah, I just had an idea to slap it on a hat. Originally said glass nerd just as something that, you know, light hearted, almost kind of empowering a term and kind of taking it back. You know, like nerd had such a negative connotation.
Yep. That's the last thing you wanted to be. But you know, it's okay to know stuff and be a smart person. So kind of wanted to kind of neutralize the negative connotation there and just have something goofy that, you know, you get stopped and people ask you about it whether in the glass industry or not. So that's, that's where that kind of stemmed from. And then so I started wearing one for myself.
There's another side. I used to never wear hats, but now I always wear. Wow. That's okay. For some, some medical reasons I got. I had some skin cancer issues. And so when I was told to always wear a hat, I figured if I got to wear a hat, I'm gonna make it my own.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Gonna make it worthwhile. Yep.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Now it became kind of a part of a signature look, I guess which, which has its blessings because I can go pretty incognito if I'm not wearing the hat.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Dude.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find in a crowd.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: You've got it on. Yep. Is that the truth?
[00:18:13] Speaker B: And then so I just. Now it's the not a glass Nerd there. I had some disagreements with some folks on it.
I, I've left the Glass Nerd with, with NGA for, for some legal reasons.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: So I'm just, I, I'll still support it, but I'm not allowed to have that on my head anymore.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Well, I can attest that if anybody's listening or watching to this podcast and they want to know anything, I mean literally anything about glazing or anything to do with glass, this guy is the guy to go to.
I've been watching him from afar for probably the last three years and have learned more from him and Max. So we'll throw Max in there too, because he's another guru.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: But if you're being generous.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: No, I'm not.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: I'm not entirely different.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: Well, he is. He's in a different Yoda level, but you're up there. You're definitely one for sure.
So listen, if you guys, I don't know, maybe this is going too far, but if you've got any questions, this man, anytime you're at a trade show, anytime you see him at an event, he always has a crowd of people around him.
He is a popular guy because he's willing to give knowledge away.
And that's something in these days that's unheard of. A lot of people kind of the bunny hopping from job to job, people love to just keep everything to themselves. This is my information. If I give it away, someone's going to be on a same level playing field. That's not the case.
Definitely not.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: I think there's a maturity level there too. I mean, you'll still run into some old Dodgers that will still, still have that mentality that, you know, job security, I want. If I keep it all banked here, I'm saying, yeah, you know what? I've. It's just my nature. I'm going to try to help someone if I can.
And I mean, I still maintain you're being very generous with your assessment of me.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: No, definitely.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: I've just been around a lot of things. I've seen a lot of stuff. I've messed up a lot of things. I made a lot of mistakes and those are the best lessons, that is. But I think I found value and I don't, I don't need to know everything, but I've found a way to surround myself with people that do. And so I don't know the answer. I can probably find it faster than a lot of people. And I'm always down to help anybody, whether it's a business purpose, that serves my wants and needs, my company's best interest.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: You could be a competitor or just even in a subset of this industry that has nothing to do with me, or there's no, you know, there's no tit for tat or, you know, it's not, there's no, there doesn't have to be value other than just trying to, trying to be a resource for someone that needed someone. Because you never know. One day I'm going to be in a pinch and I'm going to need a friend and I'm going to need to call someone and I'm going to have a question. I need a solution. And it's, the more you can open up and share, ideate, collaborate, it just, it makes everything better. And that's the glass industry. That's any industry I can imagine.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So kind of on that.
I don't know about fhc, but for us, even where we are like manufacturing and things, it's very difficult to attract new people. Like, it's very difficult to get people to come work. And even the younger generation, especially in your eyes, how do you feel the glass industry is doing in attracting new people, training them, trying to get that sort of next generation of skilled workers? Because I'm 42, I'm not going to be around a long time.
There are other people who are older than me and we got to look to that next generation. So kind of how do you feel that the glass industry is attracting people or maybe it's not. And what do we do about it?
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Well, it's, it's not for lack of trying that I've witnessed. It's, it's just, it's a big ass hill to climb.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: And I mean, you nailed it though.
Just the generational gap. There's, there's a lot more people retiring, exiting the industry at a rate that's a lot, it's a lot quicker pace than we're backfilling with people entering this industry.
And there's, there's factors in there that are, you know, we could always do better, we could always do more, but there's also just, there's competing factors as well that are tough to account for and compensate for. Yes, there's, there's a, there's this attitude, there's an assumption that a lot of kids or young adults get fed early on. I mean, our present company included that, okay, you do it right, you go to school, you go to college, you get your degree and the universe provides.
And it's not. And there's no mal intent there. Like it's not a bad thing. Parents encouraging their kids to go more and do more. I was the same, but I haven't done shit with my degree.
But that mentality I think is damaging. And so I think if, if a kid isn't exposed to working with your hands or the skilled trades and it's not presented as a viable career path, it doesn't even have a shot. It wasn't even at the table. If it's not presented as an option, then it's never going to win. If you can't get at least the awareness early on, it's a losing battle right out of the gate.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: And so it's just by. And it's, the system is kind of, it's, it's correcting itself a little in certain pockets but just that, that every high school that I grew up around in Southern California, they got rid of their vocational schools. You know, there's, there's not even wood shop or auto body, none of that anymore.
And so I, I understand that there's a balance there. Like okay, you do need to shift and have training courses and classes for technology and just to get, just to stay with the times. But there's always going to be a spot for someone that knows how to fix something, knows how to build something and it's just, we've kind of forgotten the importance of that.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: So I think just figuring out how to, how to kind of correct those, that kind of misdirection I think is still very much important and people are certainly trying. You'll find some, some folks like even just individual glazing companies that are just more forward thinking, more progressive, they're out there at the career fairs.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: You'll see associations. I mean I spent my time with the National Glass Association. Now I volunteer for the California Glass Association.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: And you, they, they're making noted efforts in ways that haven't been done of just engaging.
They're, they're building recruitment packets, you know, so you know, obviously an association of X amount of people can't conquer the world and fix all the problems, but they can create tools and equip other companies out there to do that and just, just disseminate so much faster. Yeah. But it takes some adoption, you know, to that mentality.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. I have a 15 year old boy who really loves to work with his hands like he's big into RC cars and he basically whacks them into trees and then loves the fact of buying the parts fairly cheap, fixing them Putting them back together.
And so as a parent, I look at that and I go, that's what he really wants to do. So I'm going to encourage that and help him. And that's. And it's like there's times that we have opportunities even in our work to bring them in. Like days that we bring our kids in or whatever. Those are so vital at a young age to kind of open their eyes that it's not all computers and everything is like data and every. No, there's like a CNC operator or a machine operator or a saw or.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: An assembler, robotics, everything totally between.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: Yep. It's unbelievable. But giving them the perspective of there's more out there. And I think a lot of people sadly don't like to get their hands dirty anymore. But what we're finding here is the people who are getting their hands dirty are starting to make the money because there are few and far between.
So plumbers, electrician, welders, it's like you can't find them. So they can be like, well, this is what it costs, you gotta pay it.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: So that's what I tell them. I have three daughters and I tell.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: Them all the time.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: I was like, we're gonna teach you how to weld. Like you do that. You can write your own ticket anywhere, dude. I mean it's also there's the out the other outside influences too. It's. I mean kids and even adults are just, just force fed so much horseshit. Just. We have so many people that are just delusional. Like, I'm gonna be an influencer. I'm gonna be. Yeah, I'm gonna be a video game designer. Totally.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Okay, well let's see how that operates. That's not going to work.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: So I still have any go.
The world doesn't need another communications major, I'll tell you that.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: No, it needs people to work hard. But anyways. So FHC where you're working at currently now is known for like innovative hardware. Just the latest and greatest things. I had a chance to walk past the booth and at Glassbuild last year and just saw some of the awesome equipment.
What is FHC looking for even in the future?
Is there any cool things that are coming up?
What things are you pushing? What are you currently working at? And then how do you see kind of equipment that we make? How do you see that working together with you guys to kind of improve a system and help installers?
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. I mean, so it's. FHC is kind of, it's obviously I'M biased and I'm gonna position it in a very positive light, but good. Even if you take the rose colored glasses off, you'll. I've heard the same observations from people that don't get paid to say it, you know, so I mean as much as we're, we pride ourselves on innovation, I mean that's, we really want to push things to, to next levels, but we also want to preserve and return to a lot of just traditional dynamics that have gone by the wayside.
Just prioritize the customer, provide the best customer service.
It's not a complicated playbook in so many ways.
And so just kind of a return to what that supplier dynamic can and should be.
Maintaining that just to have that trust and then also being a resource to invest and to find ways to make our customers lives easier. And those go hand in hand. Like I'm going to make sure if you call someone knowledgeable is going to answer the phone. They're going to help you. Because if you're calling, you got a problem. You know, you're not calling to shoot the shit and chit chat. Yep, absolutely. It's a phone, a friend and you need someone's help and so you need someone that one answers the phone. You'll find that that's rarer these days. But two big time also, you know, they're not randomly trying to look through the same catalog. You're trying to look through and learn as you learn.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: So investing in the people is huge. But then on just the innovation side, it comes back to making Glazers lives easier. How can you know the. Everything we're talking about is, is all connected. We talk about labor shortage and that gap and so people have to do more with less. You know, fewer people on a crew, fewer people in a shop. Glass is getting bigger. Everyone wants bigger stuff. And so we try to find ways to just make things easier to install, simplify.
That'll meet the code easier. Totally simplify things. And so innovation is actually, you know, things can get a lot more complicated, but they can also get easier as the, that's the, the underlying drive there.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: And then equipment like, you know, Omni Cube, I mean I love your guys's, all of your, all of your systems. I mean I love that they're, they're homegrown, they're engineered. It's, I mean it's not, you guys aren't just, you know, buying something and slapping a label on it. You guys are getting down and you come.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: You know, I believe, correct me if I'M wrong. But I mean, the, the roots are from the stone industry and so we're working with a bunch of flat, heavy stuff and, you know, delivering a better product. There's more, you know, sell value. If you're trying to compete on price, that's a race to the bottom. But, you know, a quality product, there's, there's so much more value in total than something that's cheap or, you know, cost effective.
[00:31:22] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: And so those, those things that we just kind of touched on, you know, architects, owners, they want bigger glass, they want bigger windows, bigger doors.
We have less people.
So my hardware needs to accommodate these bigger systems. They need to be easy to install still.
And they need to accommodate, you know, higher codes and regulations and guidelines and just sheer weight, just physics and systems like omni cubes, racks and dollies and carts and handling equipment that's, you're going to be able to move these things without, you know, bursting your back, you know, slipping a disc.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Yep. Because that's it. That's game over. Once that happens, you, unless you have a really good surgeon on speed dial, you're in a lot of trouble.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Wow. I mean, for, for, for the old, the, the older range, mid, mid, older range, guys like you and I mean it.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: I, I can, I can step down a stair the wrong way on my ankle and be out of the game for a week.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Big bike time.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: I used to have that tough guy mentality. You know, try to, try to break as few rocks as possible when you're busting up concrete because you wanted to make fewer trips to the truck.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Not anymore.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: A million smaller pieces. And find a better way to carry it there.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: Oh, that's hilarious.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's, that's also kind of, again with the maturity, I think the industry is evolving that, that tough guy mentality. Yeah. Like just, you gotta do it safely because you gotta be, you're talking about your livelihood.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: You know, you gotta, you got to be able to show up and do it again tomorrow.
And I mean, it could also be a, not just an injury, it could be a life type thing.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: You know, it's, that's the thing.
[00:33:03] Speaker B: Bad stuff can happen.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Scary.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: You're working around machinery, heavy items, and if you're on a job site, you're around a bunch of people, you don't know, you don't know what exactly they have. You don't know what safety culture they have.
And so it's just like driving on the freeway. You can be the best driver and you could just get totally Annihilated by, walloped by some yahoo not paying attention.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah, crazy.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: I think that's. They're all, they're all inherently connected.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: Connected for sure.
If someone. We've got, you know, we're trying to promote young people coming in. We're trying to promote, you know, bringing people into this industry.
If you could basically make a starter pack, a nerd starter pack, what sort of, like, information would you give them? What tooling would you recommend?
Is there books you would recommend? Is there, like, training that you would, you know, push them towards? Or is it jump in the deep end?
Oh, here we're back.
We had a glitch.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Don't know if that.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: Who that was, but we'll see. Anyways, we're here.
Yeah, kind of. If we were to create the glass, start a nerd starter pack, what would that look like? What resources would you recommend?
Yeah, that sort of thing.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: You know, I, I think it starts with, with character. And again, I don't. I, I can just speak to the stuff that I've learned by doing it wrong.
Check your ego as fast as you can.
And that's. And that goes against your DNA when you're 18 years old, until you're 3:30.
I don't know. Some people haven't let go of it still.
[00:34:46] Speaker A: Some people even, still. Yep, absolutely.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Just check your ego. Just be genuine. Yeah, it's okay to know things, but try, try to be the dumbest guy or gal in every room.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, but also don't be afraid to jump in, like, I think, safely. With the right PPE and the right handling equipment, of course. Yeah, just, just do it. And you can figure out a lot by, by just having a kind of an ingrained nature of curiosity. Like, don't, don't assume that you know what's right. Don't assume that you know what's best. And don't be afraid of being embarrassed or don't think that you'll be embarrassed by asking the questions. Yeah, totally. So, I mean, if you can figure that out, you're going to go farther than I have a lot faster than I did.
But that's, that's easier said than done. I mean, it's, it's hindsight, you know, retrospect, I can say, sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: Yep. But when you're, when you are that. When you are my younger years, no, yeah, there you go.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: So, I mean, there, I mean, in terms of resources, just take every opportunity to learn that you can spend your own time learning.
Get Out. I mean if you want to be in the trades, if you want to be in the glass industry, go, go spend some time on a job site. If you're not, if you're not a glazer, go go with one of your customers. You know, I'm sure the boss will approve it. To say, I really want to learn this industry.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: You're gonna learn faster by doing than by reading anything or listening to anything or watching anything.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Hands on.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Just, just immerse yourself in that world as fast as possible.
And you know, books, I mean there's, I could go forever on, on books, but in terms of the industry, you know, the forever bible in my world was always the, the Ghana Glass association of North America, which is now merged with the nga. But their glazing design manual was, was just about on every desk and every shelf of anyone that knew anything when I was coming up. And yeah, I still have one in my office. I put it in our conference room here.
[00:37:06] Speaker A: I mean it's awesome.
[00:37:07] Speaker B: It's a good kind of best practice for a lot of broad level items. And then you know, go, go to sit in on webinars. There's so much information out there like never before.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: I mean there's some podcasts, but I mean there's so many free webinars. Free access. Yeah. MyGlassClass.com you can get either free or very affordable courses. There's learn glazing.com the free. It's, it's just you got to invest your time. I mean that's the investment. But it is an investment.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:37:37] Speaker B: The more you can step up, show that initiative and differentiate yourself, you're going to become dangerous. The good kind of dangerous.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah, big time.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Totally skipping ahead of the other ones that expect something to be handed or you know, that think they knew it already and don't need to do it. They were too proud, too stubborn to try to learn more.
[00:37:58] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:37:59] Speaker B: And get a glass cutter that should be in your kit too.
[00:38:02] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:38:03] Speaker B: There you go. Learn how to. Even if, even if you're not the most hands on or construction savvy. If you're more on the technical side, you're an engineer, you want to get more on, on that angle of it if you're going to be in the industry, know what a glass cutter is and learn how to cut glass.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Yeah, you'll be cred with the old dogs quick.
[00:38:24] Speaker A: Yep, totally awesome. So when Andrew's not deep in glass and all things glass and everything glass.
What's something that people may be surprised to learn about you or what are some of your hobbies or go to's to kind of release from the glass industry.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: I got the kiddos. And so I try to engage and be present as much as there as possible.
I'm not as valuable on the sidelines at the.
For the ballerina in the family.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: No.
Okay.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: You'll see me mixing it up with. With other angry dads on. On softball fields.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Nice. Nice. Yep.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: Allegedly. Sometimes ejected. But.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: Oh, come on.
[00:39:13] Speaker B: I try to hang out with my kids a lot and just whatever that looks like sometimes, you know, I get them to help me with. With fun projects in the garage. Whatever hobbies.
I like old cars. Nice.
My baby. Right now I've got a 64 Chevy dually glass truck. Wow.
That sits here at the shop here at FHC with me. And so I like. I like to play with that thing a bit. And so I just. There's only so many hours in the day. I like doing that.
I used to do a little woodworking, and that was another fun outlet to bring my kids into again.
Yeah.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: That's cool.
[00:39:52] Speaker B: Back in the day, I used to box a little. Not so much these days.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: I'm easier to hurt, but.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: Oh, man. Excellent. Good stuff. So where do you see the glass industry going? So we're kind of. We're in 2025, obviously. Covid came through.
We've kind of gone what we feel kind of into the doldrums a little bit. Things are slow.
We're wondering, are we ever going to pick back up? Are things going to be booming again? So, like, where do you see the glass industry heading in like the next five to 10 years?
[00:40:29] Speaker B: That's like, you got a crystal ball, I got an eight ball. I guess.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Oh, well, I guess we'll have to take that one. That's probably. That's as close as we're going to get.
[00:40:39] Speaker B: Predictable.
It's gonna go where you don't want it to go, and it could end you.
It's really tough to read. I mean, I think if anyone truly had that crystal ball, they would be.
You wouldn't see or hear from them ever again.
You know, Covid was definitely a wake up call and tragic for a lot of companies that I've known personally and just heard in roundabout ways that just couldn't make it. But, I mean, we're still in murky waters that have nothing to do with COVID There's just. I mean, supply chain issues.
I mean, it comes down to interest rates. Construction starts, stops, stalls, it's.
But it all depends on where you live and who you ask.
Some folks I know are going gangbusters and, you know, are turning down work or, you know, their backlogs are all the way through 20, 20, 26.
If, but if you're more job to job, smaller crew and you're, you know, it's, you don't know it. It's always good to diversify, you know, whether that means the services you can provide.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Or the products you carry.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Or your supply chain diversification. Like don't put all your eggs and don't, don't just be a windshield replacement person.
[00:42:01] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:42:03] Speaker B: You know, diversify. Because I remember like, even before COVID during some of the, we had some big economic uncertainty, you know, 20, 15 years ago, the first recession. I mean, I knew glass shops that were, you know, the phone rings, you just say yes.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: It's just like whatever it is, you do it.
[00:42:23] Speaker B: You need a custom mirror table. Yeah, we could do that.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: Yeah, we could do that. No problem. Totally.
Yeah.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: I mean, I'm an optimist, but I lean. I also, I kind of hybrid with a realist. Yeah. I don't, I don't believe the sky is always falling, but I don't think you can take anything for granted. I think all you can ever do is try to, try to safeguard yourself in ways. Control the things you can. Yep. But there's just so many things that are outside of your control. I can't control interest rates. I can't control.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: No.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Whatever.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: We can't control any of it. Yeah.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: I know this industry to be resilient and resourceful and just downright scrappy.
[00:43:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: So I think the fighters are going to fight and persevere and I think there's going to be some, just sadly, some folks that weren't willing or in a position to adapt or adopt. And that's, those are, those are the hard lessons. But I think, I mean, there's, there's factors that are beyond economics, geopolitical things, pandemics that just fall in. I mean, there's, there's energy codes that come into place too, that are a huge threat to Glass.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: As a whole. Yeah. I mean, in terms of. And so you just got to keep, keep advancing, keep, keep adapting and keep innovating. I mean, so glass has to do more, otherwise it's just going to be another solid brick wall.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Yep. That's the thing.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: You'll have a very sad office like this with no windows.
[00:43:50] Speaker A: No windows in it at All.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: Totally. I'm actually in my penthouse suite with my sweet view of Dodger Stadium.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Okay. Wonderful.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:59] Speaker A: You need to get back to your demo day and take that wall light. Yep. Little small pebbles.
Take it out quick. For sure. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, we've. The. The getting your eggs out of one basket is. It's challenging, it's hard work, but the rewards are actually really good.
We have. We have good suppliers that supply us, but all it could take is one phone call or whatever, and they're gone. They're. They're no longer. And then we're left going, well, what do we do? So it is good to. It is good to do that.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: It's tough because it's way too easy. I mean, it's just like a relationship. It's so easy to just get comfortable. Totally. Why change it? Why fix it if it ain't broke? And if you're. If you're just absolutely annihilating it, killing it. Crazy. Crushing it on frameless showers and you have five good years and you made this mint and you're. And then suddenly, hypothetically, something takes a shift and showers are banned. Like, okay, well, what do I do?
[00:44:57] Speaker A: What do we do now?
[00:44:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Internally. I think a lot of places have this kind of policy, you know, just with personnel, with your staff, you know, it's. It's the.
What if they get hit by a bus or win the lottery? They're just gone the next day. Absolutely.
You can't have these little points of, you know, that are just going to destruct everything. You know, you can't have these linchpins that. If. That. If that leg of that table goes, the whole table falters.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: Gone.
[00:45:24] Speaker B: And that. That, just, that. That simple mentality kind of can go across an entire company, across an industry.
[00:45:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: And you're. If you just put yourself out there and open your eyes to what. What is out there. I mean, you're going to find stuff that you weren't even.
And maybe what you were doing and what was winning and working 10 years ago is you haven't touched or even thought about again, you know, Totally.
Again. It's always. It's easy to pontificate and hypothesize.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: Totally. Absolutely. Yeah.
It's good to have owners who are not afraid of change, because sometimes that can be a problem where it's like, no, it's working, it's doing good.
I'm more of the, no, let's change it. Like, let's do it different than we did yesterday. Is there Anything we could improve upon. And to have owners who back you in that, who actually, like, push that themselves is, like, phenomenal. Such a blessing to have. So if you.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: It's incredibly liberating and just empowering to have someone that'll have your back. And it's okay to fail.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: It is okay. We're all going to fail. But get up and get on.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: I know what's. What about a lot of things.
If at the end of my chain, whatever is at the end of.
If you look at the blooper reel of Andrew Herring, oh, man, you're going to.
[00:46:47] Speaker A: There's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. We're definitely going to need that beer to sit down and watch the ball. That's for sure. Oh, dear.
If you could solve. If Andrew could solve one major issue in the glass industry, what would he pick and what would it be?
[00:47:04] Speaker B: Oh, just one.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: You're only allowed one. Okay. We don't want. You know, we haven't got all night here. No, I'm just kidding.
[00:47:12] Speaker B: I mean, if I had the magic wand, silver bullet that was gonna. That could figure out the labor issue, that's gonna solve a lot of problems.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: Because that goes across the board. From the folks that design and specify to the folks that make the product, to the folks that install the product, to the folks that make the supplies that install the things you install. Like, it's.
It's. That's. That's a very common symptom. That. That's. That just. If you could. If you could crack that code. Yeah, but I mean, we're. That's. That's. That's a hoop dream, you know, like.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. No, it's so true. So kind of the last question, then, kind of following on from that, if you were to be able to talk to the young Andrew, you know, many years ago or whatever, what's one bit of advice you would give him? And then how would you basically sell this industry to anyone who may be on the fence who's listening to this or who's wanting to dabble their toes in it?
Like, what kind of. I hate to say inspirational speech would you give? But if you were able to grab just one person who's on the fence, what would you tell them to make them come into this industry and just knock it out of the park?
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Well, I'd probably take young Andrew.
Punch him in the mouth.
[00:48:42] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: It can't be child abuse if it's yourself, right?
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:48:48] Speaker B: Definitely not in this weird scenario.
Shoot.
Just know that things aren't gonna go as planned.
And that can be a great thing. Like, don't totally every. Every. Everything that hasn't gone to plan, every time you've had to pivot and change at the time seemed like a tragedy, but somehow you're in a better place than where you were before.
[00:49:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:23] Speaker B: You know, I.
I wouldn't go back and change a single thing because whatever it was, the good, the bad, the ugly, the silly, the it. It got me where I'm sitting right now. And that's. It's not a bad place to be. Yeah. And. But I could have never charted this path in a melody Crystal ball.
[00:49:46] Speaker A: Yeah. There you go. Absolutely not. That's cool. Good stuff. Well, thank you so much for being on here. I really appreciate your time and for all the people that are listening, I'm sure you found this as informative and interesting and it's been awesome to get to know you more. I really do appreciate it.
That's a wrap from us here at the Cutting Edge Installs. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow. Subscribe like us. Shit it out across wherever it needs to be.
For more tools, obviously FHC go on their website. If you need to find anything to do with glazing, installing, whatever, go there. Anything to do with tools to help you move materials to keep you Safe, go on omnicube.com and until the next time we see you all, cheerio. Take care and all the best.
[00:50:36] Speaker B: Don't go yet.
[00:50:37] Speaker A: Oh, we're not leaving.
[00:50:39] Speaker B: Merv's being way too wildly modest.
You know, he's. I spent way too much time talking, but I will say, as a unbiased, I don't sell his product yet.
I used it.
I don't owe Merv anything, but I have seen, I have used their equipment and I can speak to the quality. And so I do encourage you to check it out.
I appreciate that and it's worth the investment.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you, sir. Well, I didn't pay him to say that, but I really appreciate him bringing that out. So, Andrew, thank you. A real blessing to have you on here and I hope people enjoy this. And until next time, like I said, cheerio, and we'll see you again soon.
