Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Cutting Edge Install Podcast brought to you by Omni Cubed, where innovation meets installation, and literally, absolutely everything in between.
I'm your host, Merv Campbell. I'm the general manager here at Omni Cubed. And it's an honor to have really special, awesome, wonderful craftsmen to come on the podcast and talk a little about themselves, a little bit about the business.
We have Sal from AR Tile and Stone, who I am very, very privileged to meet this morning. We've had some interactions online, we've met at trade shows. He's well known throughout the industry.
And so I Hope this next 30 minutes is going to be a blessing to me, as I know it will be, but more a blessing to others to learn more about this wonderful craftsman and what he does day in, day out. So whether you're on the job, whether you're on the road, or whether you're just looking to stay sharp, you've come to the right place. So welcome Sal. It's good to have you, sir.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: So my name is Sal. I am the owner and operator of Argo Tile and Stone in San Francisco.
I'm a second generation stoneman and have been in the business for.
I've opened my business since 2016.
My family had a marble and granite shop growing up called VAP International from 1988 to 2010.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: They had a 20,000 square foot building on two acres which housed full scale fabrication shop, indoor and outdoor tile and slab storage. And we had a very large showroom and which I did a water jet floor.
Looks like a peacock.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: And like the feathers of a peacock. So, yeah, it was a centralized circle that grew and grew like a peacock's feather.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: With three different stones.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: Sweet.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it was beautiful.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: That water jet was actually something that we pieced together back in the day. My dad thought that buying parts instead of putting a machine together was the right.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Was the way to go.
That's awesome. That's so cool. So you're saying you're a second generation.
Obviously that means there was a generation before who worked hard and diligently at this. How long were they in business?
Are they still in business?
Is that where you got your passion for this from? Or let's kind of go back in time a little bit and kind of learn even more about that.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: So back in the 80s, my dad was a general contractor and he had a few friends in Italy and they said, well, Joe, you know, since you're in the States and we're here. Let's. Let's do some business. And you know, one day 20 containers showed up.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
They scrambled to find a warehouse. They found a warehouse and just started fabricating pretty much right away. Yeah.
In 92, they switched buildings. That's. That's the 20,000 square foot building that I was talking about out.
And they, they scaled up in 2003 and started building on top of the warehouse office area and another 9,000 square feet of warehouse man of office space. Wow. Where we ended up renting and we never actually moved up there and use that office space.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: That's awesome. Wow. So continual growth.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it was, it was good back then. Through the 90s.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: To the early 2000s and 2008 happened. And they took out the hefty loan in order to build the warehouse. The.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: The show, the office.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: And.
And they weren't able to keep up with that loan. The balloon payment at the end.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: You know.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a story.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: The banks wanted their money.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
They like to give it, but they don't let you have long until you gotta pay it back. That's for sure. Yeah. That 0809 was a real.
It was a hard time for a lot, a lot of people. But I think what it did was it built a lot of resilience and a lot of inner like grit and determination. Like let's get through this, let's push on.
Which we benefit even from today. So that's awesome. So kind of going more into you and what you're doing, obviously you are. If anyone has seen any of this man's work online, he is a very crafted, skilled man.
Very skilled. Some of his work, you look and go, is that even possible? Like what's going on here? An inspiration to me and I'm sure to many others, but kind of. We live in a day of technology. We live in a day of everything's gotta be automated, gotta be fast.
How has like technology like CNC routers or laser templating or whatever kind of changed the way that you work even in the last, you know, 10 to 15 years?
[00:05:43] Speaker B: Well, since I don't have a shop, we still do things the way that we did them 30 years ago.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: Wow.
Wow, that's awesome.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: So.
But what I can say is that the handling equipment that we have now is much better than before.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Thanks. Omni Cube with, with their vacuum suction cups and slab savers and seam setters. Those. Those things for non existent 20 years ago.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: And it's made our lives Much easier.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: Well, that's a blessing. That's good to hear. No, that's cool. Yeah. That's why I kind of threw that question in, knowing maybe what the answer might be. Because when you actually go online and check this guy out and know that he doesn't have a shop, but yet all this wonderful work have happens. Yeah, you're very, very skilled man. So kind of getting into the industry like stone, tile, heavy, dirty, whatever, put a tag on it however you want. But what do most people get wrong, Sal, about the industry in general, about people like yourself, even manufacturers of tools.
The more you talk to like the sort of general public, you know, what do they get wrong about us guys, as I like to call it.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: I think the general public thinks that what we do is easy and unfortunately it's, it's, it's quite the contrary. Yeah, what we do is very difficult and if not executed correctly then, you know, a lot of the times you have one. One shot.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Especially with slabs. You really do only have one shot with slabs. Yeah. Once it's down, it's down.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: You're not lifting it up, you're not moving it around.
Definitely not any adhesive on it.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's sad when you see pictures of beautiful pieces of, you know, natural stone. Yeah, exactly that. I was literally going to do that. Yep. When it goes, when it hits the ground and there's no more, there's a, there's, there's a tear appears in your eye and it's like, oh no. But yeah, that's, that's why tools are important and that's why like even, not even the stone, but like we're talking even about thin material and tile like keeping people safe. Because this stuff is like rays are sharp on that bridge. So it's, it's quite dangerous.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: We've had some close calls. I've even had some close calls in the last couple years with, you know, breaking pieces. They, they do break. Yeah. It's inherent in our business. That is especially when we're doing floors and you know, we have a giant L shaped piece and you have three, three guys on it and maybe one guy doesn't hold his gravel right or you know, they pull and you're pushing.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Good communication is key throughout all industry and especially when you're installing any sort of slab or dial, that's for sure.
Okay, a little bit about you personal level.
Obviously many people will not know your sort of day to day or what you like, but I like to throw this question out Is there a particular book that you've either read or listened to that you've benefited from? Both, even? Just like, for me, I like to just sometimes read fiction or murder mysteries just to get my head out of different spaces and just kind of veg on a book. But is there a particular book or genre that you've read that has helped you even in your business or just being able to chill out?
[00:09:28] Speaker B: I'll be honest with you. I haven't read a book in its entirety since 2009.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Wow. There you go.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: I need. I need to get more in my repertoire. Yeah, it was Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: I read it in high school, and there you go. I remember not reading it all the way through in high school after.
After years.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: And.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a good book. Yeah.
That was about the bombing of Dresden. And it's like a. It's like a.
It's a fiction piece, but yeah. There's also based on reality.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: No, that's funny.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Yeah. You say about not finishing books. I have a. I have a habit sometimes if I'm halfway through a book and it's like, I don't really want to read this, I'll just flick to the last chapter, be like, yep, if it's a murder mystery, who done it? That's all that matters. Let's. Let's forget the bit of material between. But kind of getting back into normal day to day. Was there ever a time, Sal, that you were like, you know what? I've had enough. I just want to walk away. I want to do something different.
What kept you going? If obviously you're still doing it, so you haven't walked away.
But what keeps you going? Like, what gets you out of bed? What keeps you motivated? What makes Sal tick?
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Well, I have experienced burnout, and I've been kind of experience it, experiencing it lately.
But I think, you know, the first time I was throwing a curve ball was when I first opened, and I originally started my business as a showroom.
I didn't want to install off the bag.
And I dumped a bunch of money into this building and I.
I fixed it up. I had a few customers and I made some good contacts.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: But after a year, I was kicked out.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: And they sold the building, and I had to either make the decision to quit or keep going. And so since we were contracting jobs out of the showroom, I ended up just being a helper and.
And being a helper. You know, you learn everything about the trade. Oh, yeah. And I was. I helped from both sides. I. And, you know, growing up, I had. I had always done something. You know, I did my first tile job when I was 18 in Chico.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: There you go. Wow.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: Yeah, we did a lot. We did that whole house. I think it was maybe 8,000 square foot house.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: One of those giant guys. But I digress.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: Oh, you're good. You're good. Don't worry.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: What. What I. What. What keeps me going is my determination to finish strong.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: I, you know, I get into a job kind of knowing what the outcome is going to look like as soon as I get there, just from seeing their materials and.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: So putting it together and seeing the finished product is what keeps me going.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: Keeps you going. Yeah. And that.
I appreciate your honesty there because I think even in today, the days that we live in, there's a lot of people facing burnout, and a lot of people are, because things are so volatile and the market is moving so much.
It just seems like every day comes with new challenges, like on your side of the business. On our side of the business, there's never, like a kind of gradual moving up or even moving down. It's this, like, roller coaster, and it can be quite difficult.
And I know, sadly, as men, we tend not to tell people how we're doing or whatever else. And this is not a plug for anything else. But, you know, if people are struggling, like talking to someone, grabbing a coffee, even what we're doing right now, now that I know that about you, I'll be like, hey, Sal, how you doing? How's things going? How's the next job? And I think in the stone industry and in the tile industry, there is a camaraderie and a bond between all of us. Like, you see it at trade shows. I love whenever guys meet each other, like in the hallway or at a booth, and they're like, oh, Jimmy. Hey, Sam. And it's like high fives and hugging. It's so needed.
And so if anyone is listening to this podcast and they are struggling with something, go talk to somebody.
We need all our gifted craftsmen to stay and do what they do, because sadly, there's hardly anyone behind coming up that next generation.
And so we gotta look after one another. Which gives me my next question, actually, is we have gifted people now. We have wonderful craftsmen, wonderful tradesmen.
But how do we.
How do we help the next generation? And if you were to give, like, one piece of advice to someone following in your footsteps, what would you give them? What would you say?
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Don't be afraid to get your hands Dirty?
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Yes. Good.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Because if you have any apprehension at all about what you're doing, you might as well not do it.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: So don't be afraid to make a mistake. Mistakes can be fixed.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: I mean, you know, you may break a piece, but, you know, you can get another one and replace it.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Or you, you know, you may install a leaking shower.
That's why you test your shower pans.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Everything can be fixed. And I think that's. That's the. The number one thing.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. Fret not and fear not. Yeah, there's a lot of. There's a lot of people don't want to get their hands dirty.
We see. I see that everywhere. You see it, too.
Everyone just wants to play video games and stay at home. And it's hard work. This, this industry is very hard, but it's probably one of the most rewarding.
I remember when I first started in this job here that I was asked a question. What's the number one room in the home?
And I'm thinking, what? What are you talking about? And they were like, oh, it's the kitchen. And I'm thinking, what? And they were like, well, everyone eats there, everyone meets there. It's where everything gets thrown on the table. The keys, the wallet, the phone, everything.
And so if craftsmen and skilled men and women can create beautiful kitchens, it just gives a home that warmth and just that central point of the home.
And so having it beautiful and having it look really, really good, it only helps. But, yeah, don't be afraid to break anything at all.
So in your workday, in your schedule, you talk there a little bit about when you walk into somewhere, you can kind of see the finished.
You can kind of. Basically, you're a visionary. You can see how things are.
How do you ensure precision? How do you ensure quality? How do you ensure that the customer isn't coming after Sal with a finger going, you didn't do what I asked you to do. How do you ensure all that, Sal?
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Well, first of all, I collect all the information I can prior to the project, whether it's measurements or the actual stone selections, and I'll do a drawing and that will ensure me at least a picture in my head of how everything is going to lay out.
But to ensure everything, I prep everything myself. Whether it's a bathroom or a backsplash, I make sure that there's free of any valleys or big humps or in backsplashes and in bathrooms, I. I Take everything.
I like to come into the project with, you know, studs and subfloor and then I, I can remedy from there. So remedying, being shimming or sistering studs on.
We also do mud work, so paper lath mud.
And that ensures that all my spaces will be plumb and level.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Okay, so you basically start from the stud and work your way out.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Awesome. Yeah, some men are.
No, I want everything done and all I want to do is put the material on the wall and it's like.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Yeah, sure, that doesn't work that way.
Did you fight then you fight the wall or fight the floor the entire time? It's not totally worth it.
You know, you, you have a eight foot slab, you know, eight foot by six foot and you know your wall is sticking out in one spot, it's going to pick up that, that high spot and you have a crooked.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: You're, you're fighting it and you do get that my wall's not straight. What's going on? Yeah, well, you got that customer.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: Well, that's the bad part. But also, you know, when you spread thinset, it's supposed to be spread evenly.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: And when you squish the piece on, it's supposed to be. The thin set is supposed to spread evenly on the piece as well.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: Yep, totally.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: If you have a, if you have a point in your wall or a point in your floor where it's sticking out now, you've created a void.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: We don't want that.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: We don't want that.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Nope, not in a wet area.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: That's a. No, no, we don't want that.
So we're basically talking about, you know, going back to the studs, you know, building it out from there. You're in control. You're able to manipulate and move and make sure everything's good.
So is there any like specific tools or is there any specific techniques that you rely on?
Maybe not even like right now, they're just kind of embedded and so they just, you just go with it. But if you were to like stop and ponder, is there anything even over the years that you've learned even some little like tip bits maybe to help someone else who's listening here to maybe do their job better or more efficient or a tool that you would recommend to do that?
[00:20:49] Speaker B: There has been several techniques I've picked up over the years and you know, actually social media has helped in that respect because the people I've met over the years have, have shown me so many things, told me so many things going to events. Like even at one of the mud events, one guy had had some mud on a. On a hawk and he, he picked it up with his trowel.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: Huh.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Tapped, tapped the, the top of his trowel on the, on the hawk and showed me that the mud would not slip down the trowel.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: So that, that was like magic to me when I first.
That's awesome. Yeah.
What else? I mean, we, the. The. The techniques I use for plumbing and leveling is I think pretty cool.
We use a spacer when doing go board or any boards. We use a. A foam spacer by. Built with foam.
And they're different thicknesses. It's a. Like a 2, 2 inch by 1 inch foam square.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: You purchase in different thicknesses. 16, 8 and so on.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: And so in a space, in a shower. I'll go to the longest, longest wall first.
Put my 3D laser on the inside of the wall so that the Y axis of the laser is shooting along the face of the wall.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: And then I can go from points to points. Usually I go top, bottom, and middle.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: And see where the laser is sitting.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: So I can tell, you know, by the furthest out point to.
To gauge the distance of the, the laser to the stud and then build off of that and then plane that all out.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: And that, that works very well. We've been doing that method for the last couple of years.
Yes.
Between. Between those spacers, we'll, we'll load up the studs with thinset and put the, Put the board on all at once.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: So we do. We use a 4 by 8 board. And so we're getting like pretty much a wall done at a time.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Which saves lots of time.
Saves lots of time. And the, the traditional mud way is.
It's fast.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: But it's very dirty.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: It's really depends on. On the installation itself because sometimes I, I am forced to do mud. Like on the last project, I, the contractor stapled a sound barrier which is like a rubber roll.
[00:24:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: They went from stud to stud.
And you know, I had quoted that. That project as boards.
When I got there, I. I found this rubber material on the walls. And yeah. I told the customer, I'm like, you know, I can't adhere my material to this boards.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: To this, to this wavy wall.
Now I have nowhere to shim off of.
So, you know, what was.
What was an $80,000 job turned into a $95,000 job because of all the money.
And you know, it is what it Is, Yeah, but.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: So we're cons. We're constantly learning salad up here. We are constantly learning. So one thing, if someone who is kind of new to the industry wanted to learn more, what's one bit of advice? Or where would you tell them to go or what events would you tell them to go to to learn more and to gain some of these skills?
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Well, honestly, going to all the events is, is, should be part of, of your, I don't know, I want to say repertoire again, but yeah, it should be part of it.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: I, I, I am a part of the mudboard. And every year we do a event called mud.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: And this year I'll be in at the Fusco Industrial Supply in Arizona in Mesa, Arizona. And there we'll be doing CTI testing and ACT testing for those who want to become a certified tile installer or have already gotten their CTI and want to take some advanced training.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Trainings and stuff.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: Training. And the advanced training is mud walls and mud floor and awesome. You know, it's funny is that I learned doing that first.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: So that being advanced is kind of strange to me.
It should be part of cti.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: This is the door. So if anyone, if anyone wanted to find out about that event or wanted to learn more, where would they go to?
[00:26:39] Speaker B: You could go to the MUD event page on Facebook and we have our RSVP open already.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: And through rsvp, rsvpfi.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: Okay.
Awesome. Yeah. And I would highly recommend it. These events are, they're good for a number of things. One of them would be camaraderie. So you build up your repertoire of people who are in the industry with you, and there's many times you can get caught in a difficult job and you're like, oh, man, if I only had someone to give me advice. Well, get as many phone numbers and business cards as you can at these events. And that's one thing. It's a brotherhood. We're here to help each other.
There is that care for one another. And one thing I really appreciate, like you've kind of given away some, as you were, top secret information on how you do things. But that's what they do. They tell you, they teach you, they train you, they give you this advice. It's not this, it's all mine. You're not getting it. No, there's a care for one another. So please, if you're listening to this or watching it, go to the events, go to trade shows. Hopefully we'll be there with you at mudd. So, you know you can come see me, go see Sal, learn from other people.
One thing, pay attention.
There's little gold nuggets that are thrown out during these events that are priceless, that are absolutely priceless. But you gotta be there to hear it. So make every effort.
Kind of getting back to you, Sal, what's your morning look like? Everyone has a different morning. Everyone has different ways they do things.
How does Sal prepare for the day?
[00:28:31] Speaker B: I drink hot lemon water and. Nice with ginger.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Huh?
[00:28:36] Speaker B: There you go, liver.
I used to be an avid coffee drink drinker and I would dump a lot of sugar and it's. It was affecting my health. So.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Okay, so you went for the hot lemon water.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: Lemon water.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: There you go. So if you see Sal at the mud event, get him a hot lemon water, get him some honey squeezed in.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: There and call it good.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: What's one thing, what's something that people are surprised about, Sal? Like when people maybe don't know you get a little bit more to know about you. What they go, whoa, I didn't know that about you.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: I designed most of all my Swag.
I do 3D renderings. Most people don't know that.
And I speak three languages.
I speak Italian, Spanish, and English.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: Wow, dude, that's awesome, man. I speak English and sometimes Irish English, which people are going, can we have subtitles, please? Yeah.
That's awesome.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: That's cool. No Gaelic.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah, no Gaelic yet. We're learning, but we'll get there.
What's on your bucket list?
Obviously, we're halfway through 2025. It's ridiculous, but is there anything that you're looking forward to this year or even and then in the not too distant future that's kind of driving you on, keeping you going?
[00:29:53] Speaker B: I. I've been trying to find a building and open a fabrication shop, and it's been my. My dream to have my own shop. And I did actually give Breton some money in 23, thinking that I was going to be able to open, and I haven't yet, so they still have my money, but.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Well, it's there waiting for you at some point. Okay, well, that's good.
We can hope that you get that building and open up and keep pushing forward, kind of finishing up here.
If you were to give just one piece of advice, if you could give a few words to someone who is thinking about getting in the industry, dreaming of a career in this industry, what's one bit of advice that you would give them?
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Stay positive and driven, and the rest will fall into place.
Wow.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: There you have it. You heard it from Sal.
So I thank you very much, sir. This was very it was an encouragement to me.
I've learned even more about you in this podcast, and I hope others will, too.
And I appreciate your time for coming on here.
I was your host. I'm Merv Campbell here with Sal. Go check him out. Check him on Instagram. He does do awesome swag. I have a few pieces that he handed me at the last event, and they're pretty darn cool. So, yeah, hook them up for some of those. Check out the mud events. Check out omnicube.com for all of your needs for material handling, for any tools. And until the next time that I have a new guest on the podcast, I say cheerio. Thank you, Sal, and have a wonderful day, everyone. Take care.
All right. Goodbye.
