Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Well, good day, everyone, and welcome to the Cutting Edge Install Podcast brought to you by Omni Cubed, where innovation meets installation. And let's be totally honest, episode two of the new series, this could literally be anything in between. So who knows how this is going to go, but we're going to have fun. I'm your host, Mert Campbell, and it's an absolute pleasure to have you with us today.
What's this podcast all about? Well, it's about celebrating, and it's about celebrating pros, about installers, experts, and game changers. And you've already seen the guy's picture who's on today, and a lot of people know this guy, and man, is he. I'm excited for this one. That's what we really do. We're going to dive into stories, we're going to share insights, and we are going to have fun. So no falling asleep. Keep your eyeballs open and keep your ears listening, because the Irish, well, we know how to have fun. We weren't at the World cup, but if we were, Boston probably would have been dry, just like the Scots had made it. But anyways, so whether you're on the job, whether you're on the road, whether you're looking to stay sharp, you have come to the right place. So enough of me, we're going to get cracking on this.
Wesley, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on. I've known you for, what, 10 years since we kind of, like, crossed paths and we saw each other and it was like, hello, who are you? Yada, yada, yada. But for anyone who doesn't know you, for people who are listening and they're like, he is this guy. Introduce yourself. Describe, you know, your day to day, what keeps you going and what you do at Precision Countertops.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, first, Mark, thanks for having me on. It's really good to chat with you and appreciate you taking the time to have me on. You're welcome. Yeah. So I'm the director of digital marketing over at Precision Countertops over in, I guess, Oregon, but we serve the Pacific Northwest area over there.
I've been in the stone industry since, gosh, when I got out of college. So that was 2002. Wow. It's been a long time. I've worn a lot of hats and templating, install fabrication, everything in between.
But my real passion, aside from stone, is actually marketing and video and just content creation, storytelling and that sort of thing.
So that's what I do with precision. Essentially. If it's digital, it's out There on social media, video, all that. My fingerprints are on it.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Awesome. Good stuff.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Combining of two worlds. And here's my job.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Yep, there you go. Hey, why not make it work?
So when we're doing digital stuff, when we're doing creative work, how do you balance that creative work with say, data driven decision making? Like, like what, what kind of, what helps you make those decisions?
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Ooh, you know, I love to create, but I think with creation it's good to have boundaries, like parameters. And I think that's where the data comes in.
And so I think as opposed to being like, oh, you gotta be creative, but the data says this, it's not like a tug of war. I see it more as like a, like a circle.
And so you create something, you test it, and I like to test it. Like, so I think of it like this.
When you do a post, say on social media, I'll use that as an example. You create a piece of content, you put it out there, it's free to put it out there. You can put as much as you want out there. And I use that as a test. If that performs well, then I take it the next stage. And I'm like, what would this look like as an ad?
And then I see how the ad performs and, and so that gives me a higher confidence that the ad is going to perform well.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: And sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But if it does perform well, then I'm like, okay, that's a piece I'm going to stick over here of something that triggers or resonates with people. And I'll create a bucket. And so I create variations of that and then I'll use, when I go to the creative part, I'm like, well, last time I did a static image. This time I'm going to turn into a video. I'm going to try it like that and kind of a bag of tricks to mix and then see how that performs. So it kind of goes like that where they both need there, because you can have great content, but if it doesn't perform well, then it's pointless. You could have good data, but if you're not continuing that to evolve it for the next, because things change fast. People forget they have short attention spans. You got to come up with the next stuff.
So ultimately start here with this, maybe this, this rock out in the mountain. In the end you have this polished, pun intended, you know, piece of content.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: There you go. Totally. So, yeah, absolutely, that's a good way to look at it. And it's the Same. It's the same for us at Omni Cubed. We're constantly, like, tweaking and changing and, like, this work this time, but it didn't work the next time. And there's. I think that's where people who are gifted to kind of be at 30,000ft and see a bigger picture do a lot better than those who are just like, well, this is the way we've always done it, so let's stick to that. Because everything's changed, like, since COVID It's a whole different world. It's crazy.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: It has, and it changes so fast. And I think the thing I've noticed is that when you do a creative piece, you know, if you go over content, it's. There's an emotional part of that. And so if it doesn't work, you can't let it be like, oh, my ego's hurt. I'm never doing this again, or, it should work. I'm going to do it anyways.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: It's got to realize, yes, it's personal, but at the same time, it's not personal. You know, it's not a reflection of you. If. Does it work? Because the algorithm out there, like, you have one piece perform really good on one platform. You're like, I'm going to put it over over here.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Tanks on the next one.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crickets. It's a good ghost town. Oh, my word. So, yeah, you know, one hand, I'm curious by the algorithm of the different platforms. On the other hand, I'm like, you know, they're gonna do what they're gonna do, they're gonna change. But I do have access to certain numbers and that and analytics, and that's kind of. That's important what I anchor on. So.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So you've been doing it. You've been doing it since 2002.
You know, we all learn lessons along the way. Some more bumps along the way, but what's.
What's one sort of marketing lesson that you've had to learn the hard way? If you want to tell us that.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, how long's the podcast?
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Let's just sit back, relax, and listen for the next three hours.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, gosh. The amount of stuff going back to the point where you don't take it personal, the amount of stuff I've learned the hard way is quite long. But I think I'll say one of my first ones, my first things I learned, and it's to proofread, proofread, proofread.
I had created an Ad. Back in the day, this was, you know, we were doing a little bit more print ad, less digital, kind of that transitioning over there. So I had this deadline of trying to create this ad, and it was looking good, and I was focusing on the imagery. Then, you know, the last thing I do, I'm like, oh, I got. Put the text.
Yeah, the text. I'm like, I'll put the name and everything, address everything. And in my haste, I put my personal phone number on there. Oh, boy. We go to send it out, and it's in print. So, you know, like, unlike digital, it's like, oh, I made a spelling error.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: I can go change it.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: You know, minimal damage. Once you get 10,000 pieces going out in the mail, it's like, oh, gosh, you know, so everyone's calling my phone. Like, it's like in the first couple of times, I was like, there's must.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Must be a mistake here.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: How'd you get my number? I'm not. I don't recognize that number. Then people started leaving messages, wondering why they're not getting a call back. And so.
And so from that, I learned two things. One is proofread. But essentially the bigger thing is I called if you can let it breathe and let the content sit for a minute. Because I know, like, in fourth grade, I made my first video and I thought it was awesome. I thought this was amazing. But you don't see it for what it really is. You see it what you think it is, and if that makes sense. And so what I see is going to be different than maybe you see it or the average customer. They're going to look at, like, why is that piece? Doesn't make sense.
And so what I've learned is, like, you get something about, you know, 90% done.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: And then you set it aside and then you look at it when you've kind of forgotten about it because you get some fresh eyes to look at it.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: And if you don't have the time for that, say you don't have a couple days. You got it, you know, timeline. The other piece I've learned is to either a look at a different device, you know, say, for making some computer sent to your phone.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: Or print it out if you can, and look at it, the piece of paper. And it's amazing what your mind will see, what hours you completely missed.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Yep. 100%. Yeah.
We have a couple of set of eyeballs that like to look on things to make sure that doesn't happen, because it's typos. Are a wonderful thing. And then it's like, oh, gosh, well, we can't even spell our own company name. You know, it's odd. Happens to us all.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not alone.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: Yeah, no, you are. So. No, you're not alone. Yeah, no, definitely not. But it is good to.
That's really wise advice. Like, let it sit because you can get so caught up in it that you kind of lose.
You lose a little bit of the joy and then suddenly it becomes just a deadline that you have to hit. And so if you just, if you're able to let it sit and you can come back with that freshness and that vigor, nine times out of 10, you tweak it and it sometimes doesn't really look like what you set aside. You're like, wow, that was really bad. I'm glad I did that. So. Yeah. And then, you know, a lot of ads now are just AI generated and it's like there's no, it's just like they've pumped in the information and you know, people have six fingers and three feet and, you know, their ear is nice. Suddenly, you know, you're going, really? People you didn't like. See this?
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah, the AI topic's an interesting one. You know, it's a double edged sword,
[00:10:27] Speaker A: but yep, we'll get there. We'll get there in this pod, but we'll see. But so you wake up in the morning, you obviously go to bed at night, and there's a span in between. But what does a good day look like for you in digital media or digital marketing?
[00:10:46] Speaker B: You know, there's there, there, there's a lot, there's a lot of different ways. I mean, I love my job. And so basically, you know, if a piece of content, for example, performs really well, I love it because it's like, hey, this worked good. It's validating. And you see the cause effect if it doesn't perform well. I also like it because then I learned something new. I'm like, yeah, that didn't work.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: But overall, I think like my favorite days, for example, would be when I can meet the customer face to face. Yeah, I think those are my favorite. I'll go on site, interview them, talk with them. Because one thing I would try to obsess about is the customer and the customer experience.
Yes, it's very easy to say like, oh, I know our customer and. But there's layers of the customer. There's like countertops. There's like, yes, I want countertops. Great, I know my customer. Yeah. But Then at the bottom, there's. There might be. Why? Like, why do they want the countertops? Is it because they're having a family event? And they picture this moment in their kitchen where they spend all their time, you know, so. So talking to them. There's these little nuggets that they will say that maybe it's unintentional that you can pick up. And so my favorite is. Is going and talk to them face to face and, you know, hearing their joy, hearing what they loved, and then even asking them what didn't go well. Yeah, like, it's not. It's not all sunshine and lollipops, because the world doesn't work like that. There's things that go wrong. And so if they're like, you know, I wish this was better. Like, okay, well, tell me about that.
So I like that part because it provides reminders and also highlights blind spots I might have, you know, as far as understanding our customers. So.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: I love those days, though.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah, those are the best. Meeting people face to face and just having honest conversations with people, like, asking the why, like, why are you doing this? Why do you want it that way? You know, and then being that liaison or that person to kind of make those dreams come true, rather than you get to the, you know, but here's your stone. And the customer goes, what the heck is this? This is not what I wanted. This is not my vision.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: And then you're left going, oh, sugar, I want to crawl onto the rock and hide. So, yeah, it's good to talk to people. Like, a lot of what's. I don't know about you, but as I get older, I notice, like, our younger generation really struggle to communicate, like, openly. It's like, they can do it through texting. They can, you know, very, very well. But when it comes to, like, face to face conversations, you know, there's no eye contact.
They struggle to talk. You're like, are you okay? So I think. I think that's something that's, like, vitally important in any industry, whoever you are, no matter. You know, even the clerk at the checkout. Like, it makes a lot of. It means a lot. Whenever, like, that person talks to you and says, hey, how's your day going? And vice versa.
So communication's key, so. But no, it is.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: I mean, because everything's relationships, you know, everything in 100, even at the. You know, from the. The people you work with to, like, the person at the grocery store, you know, it's like, yeah, but it.
It's amazing. How much power that has because.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Oh, huge.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: One bit of encouragement or compliment? You know, I can think of the times people have complimented or said something, I'm like, that meant a lot. I really appreciate that. And they might not even remember they said it, but I hold on to that. I know, it's amazing. I always like going to the trade shows and talking with people face to face and seeing them, you know, because online is necessary. It's great. It solves a lot of problems, but I think you need both. You know, one gives you that tool to access a broader audience, but without that personal connection, you know, I think missing out.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: Yeah, like those you mentioned trade shows and how important they are.
And it's. It's an awesome time. Like, it's a hard day. It's a lot of hard work. You know, by the end of it, your legs hurt, your back hurt. But there's weirdly. It's like the day flies by when you're just like, talking to people.
You're hearing their problems and, you know, some of them complain a little bit more than others, and you're like, yeah, here we go.
But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, we're. We're like, we're all. We should all want to, like, help each other. And if that means a countertop, if that means tools to help, you know, whatever that might be, that's. That's what we should be doing and aspiring to, doing and be willing to do and give away. Like, we have a saying here that you never see a U haul behind a hearse, as in, you don't take your stuff with you and that we use that for, like, knowledge. So, like, if you've got knowledge, pass it on to the next generation.
Because if you don't tell them, it dies with you. So, yeah, like, we've got. We've got engineers here who are like, phenomenal.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Like, oh, yeah, imagine.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: And it's like, teach the young people. Like, they're not going to steal your job.
You're still needed. Like, I think that's people's fear. Well, if I teach the next person, they're going to take my. No, it's pushing you on to, like, the next level.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: So that's very true. Because it's.
If you can, I think you're stronger together and. And if you're an island, you're the only one on there versus, you know, you know, precision, you know, being able to have. We got a great team here, a great team of people where, you know, it's they have, everyone has their best interest, like, oh well, you know, how does this, what about this?
You know, and does make a difference though for sure. I think you know those relationships.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: So yeah, so you mentioned precision. You're there.
The company's been around for decades, 35 years of experience.
How do you modernize that sort of brand without losing that like past 35 years of just experience and history that comes with a company.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: That's a, that's a good question because they've been around since like 87.
So it's been, you know, a long time where they, you know, they've got a great reputation, they got a great, they got a lot of skill there.
But what I think is a way to modernize that is to essentially just show up regularly on social media, on digital and maximizing those platforms, essentially telling their story just to a broader audience because their story is timeless. It's going to be relevant.
It's relevant yesterday, today and tomorrow. Just the journey, what they offer.
And so it's not chasing trends necessarily anything like that. It's more of like this is who they are, this is the story, this is the problem we solve and this is how we can help you. But also like, hey, if you're not looking for this, you might check over here. You might check over here. So being more of a guide to them, a resource of like, hey, we have the experience, we have the knowledge and we'll share. I mean one of our top ads is just providing free value. There's nothing attached to it. It's just pure like here's value of things you should know. It's, you know, if you, if you use it and buy from us, great. If you use it, buy for someone else. That's fine too. In the end I would rather you be happy than to get something you don't want.
Yeah. Because that's, there's the long game and the short game with that. And so I think with precision, it's really the long game. You know, they've been here on here for so long that you know, it's like you might do this, you might get a win today, but is it a truly win long term? It might turn into a loss.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: So you know that, that long term thinking I think is showing appropriate locations and stuff.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: So obviously we live in a digital age. We live on, you know, most people live on Google or neither on chat or whatever, but some people still like old school ways and so showrooms. So like people have showrooms, they have places where people can come and touch the stone and like, you know, oh, this is so pretty, and yada, yada, yada. In your opinion, like, what role do those showrooms still play? Like, in an age where a lot of people are just online surfing and they buy a lot of stuff there?
[00:19:26] Speaker B: That is a great question. Because in the past, you know, I think that bucket of where you would show up, like, say a dealership, a car, getting a car, that was your only option. And so getting countertops, that was the same boat. Like, a lot of stuff you had to go do that.
But now, you know, like a car, you could go see it be like, wow. And the same car you see online is wow. It's the same thing. There's no real variance as long as you know what you want. Trim packages and stuff like that so you can buy it online. So that's been able to transition over that. I mean, people. I like to see it in person so that I'm biased to that. Yeah, but a lot of people are busy. They don't have that. So, you know, that's able to solve that.
But for countertops, I think it's very important because it's a custom thing that goes in your kitchen where you spend a lot of time.
And if you're in there and you're spending, you know, 8,000, 10,000, $15,000 on something that's custom and unique, specific to you, then there's a little bit more emotion attached to that.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Because it's attached to cars. But the cars, you know, are.
Or more mass produced, you know, predictable. Where, you know, some of that stone has that like a honed or a debossed feeling where you can feel it.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: And you know, when we have customers come in and they see it, there's an emotional reaction of like, wow, you don't get that online. I mean, you might be inspired online. Be like, oh, I want that. Yeah, that's like the top of the funnel. That's like the top of like, hey, I saw that. That looks cool. That resonates with me.
And the really cool thing about precision is that we just opened a new facility and we have this awesome slab gallery with slabs lining the way where you can go and you're not looking at a 4 inch sample. Like, I hope this looks good. You're seeing the full vein, you know,
[00:21:17] Speaker A: like, that's so awesome.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: And you can walk up. And I think the other thing is colors can be slightly different. You know, I'm on the picky side of visuals, and I know getting coloring Right. You know, on my screen, like, oh, it looks this way. It's that shade of sage, maybe. And you go there. It's like, yeah, that's not what I was thinking.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: That's not even anywhere close.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Not even close. And so being able to take, like. Like your cabinet door or drawer in and maybe a towel sample and hold it with your slab and actually see it in good lighting, that I think is very important. I mean, to our customer base. Like, we don't like our customer base. That's very important to them.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: And we've heard that time and time again. And so while I think a lot of other industries can switch to digital, just buy. I mean, like, buying online without ever seeing it in person, that's a great option.
But there are a few out there that, you know, it's more of a hybrid, I'd say.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: You know, you get them with that initial hook like this, what we have.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: They want to run their hand over it and be like, oh, it's so pretty.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: It's. I mean, one of the best things we've had is, you know, one of our ads we've created is the hand on the stone, like, just touching it. Yeah, it's, you know, even I. You know, we go to Vegas or something. You see all the stonework there.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: I know. You're like, ooh.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: I know. I don't really touch it. I'm like. My buddy's like, yeah. I'm like, you're kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Oh, that's hilarious. We have.
Typically, when it comes up to trade show time, we have a lot of customers who will, like, ask, will you have this product on the show? Will you have it on the. On the booth? Because they want to come up and touch and feel it and, like, see how it works, even in tooling. So, like, I think there's a lot to be said for, you know, distributors, you know, who pull product out of a box, who build it, who have it in a showroom that the customer coming in can see. And, like, oh, yeah, that looks cool and the machining and stuff. Same with stone. Like, for me, you've got to see it in the flesh. Because at computer screens, colors are never the same. Like, even if you. Even if you run an ad, like, you do it on your computer, you make an ad up, and then it comes out in the magazine and you go, oops. That's not the same thing. What the heck happened here?
So, yeah, it's vitally important that people can.
I think the experience is.
And it Gets people hyped up whenever they see it. They can like the veening in it, like, how will this look at my kitchen? And then, you know, at that point you can take a picture of it, go online and kind of mock up your kitchen and be like, this is what it'll look like. But initially, like, this is a stone you're getting so.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: And I think there's a trust thing too there. Like, if you see a tool online, there's a lot of garbage tools out there.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: But if you show up and you hold an Omni tool, you're like, yeah, this one's different. This is legit.
Yeah.
It's because you look online like, well, this one from TEEMU looks good as this one. And it's like, I mean, anybody knows.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: Yep. And then TEMU shows up and it's for a dollhouse and it's this size.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: It's for a. It's to hold a pebble rather than a piece of stone.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: So they always get to. So there's that trust thing, I think. So being able to see it in person, I. It's. You can't fake that. I mean, especially the AI. There's a lot of stuff out there that.
Is this real? And I mean, even with, like I said, TEMU and stuff is not to rag on them at all, but they serve a certain market, a certain industry, but they're not known for. They're known for price. Correct. And that's fine, you know, if that's what you're going for. But some people are searching for quality and I think.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: If it needs to do something, then yeah, I have that trustee established.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
So we're mentioning kind of AI, we're mentioning kind of trends that are coming with their.
How do you see AI changing? Like marketing for businesses like Precision, even other businesses in the industry at the minute.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Yeah. A couple years ago, I went to a marketing conference and they have all these classes over the course of three days. And this is packed. And the very last class was about AI. And I remember thinking, sitting through it, going, interesting, this sounds like a fairy tale. Because at the time they were talking about just only using it for chatbots.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: And chatbots were around before that for. Cause if in this type, statements for replies. But the guy was talking about AI using it there and going. Being able to, as he's explained. I was like, well, that sounds good, but that doesn't seem possible.
Okay. And so the world moves on. The next year I went to the conference and the guy said, by the time he had talked, by the time he finished and went home, there was another launch with AI And I said, that seems pretty fast because they're talking about some of the graphics and stuff. And then the following year, six months, then it's four months. And so it's evolving so fast.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: And so I think there's a good compliment for AI and just everyday workflow I think AI can really complement, but it can't replace it, you know, I mean, like, you see some of the AI generated stuff out there and it's just like, you can, you can tell.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: I can tell.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: The funny thing is that people like to create with AI, but I haven't met very many people who like to receive AI.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: No, that's the key point. That's the key point right there. Yep.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: As soon as they know it's AI, your credibility goes, you know, through the roof.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: Yep. Thanks.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: And so I.
There's ways it can help. I mean, one of the things I think for a lot of people say you're starting a project and you look at the screen and it's. Maybe you're writing something, maybe you're creating something, editing something, but it's just blank.
And that first step, that first step in anything in life can be so tough. I think AI is a great way where you can have a conversation and kind of like vet ideas, get them out of your head. As an initial type of.
I'm not looking at a blank screen or sheet anymore.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: I can help jump start it.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: But I think that's where, you know, your wisdom takes over after that, like your experience and like, I'll be able to apply it. Because case in point, I went hiking. I climbed Mount St. Helens with some friends and I never got anything like that. And I was like, oh, I'll just ask, yeah, what do I need? And oh, you need all this stuff. That's the long list. Okay. And I was like, what about my boots? These are the type of boots I have. This is what they are. I want make sure my feet are warm and dry because it's going to be. It was in the winter, so it's wet, snowy.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: And.
And we ended up hiking over.
Over 12 miles.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: And after the first half mile, I had my first blister.
And by the end, my feet were trash. I was. And it wasn't. It was my boots that destroyed me. It was the. Wow. I've never had blisters that bad ever. And so I was so mad because
[00:28:31] Speaker A: I'm like, I trusted AI.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: I Went back and I told it that I was talking about. I said I trusted you. You told me these boots would be good.
And you know what it said? It said you asked if your boots would be warm and dry. You didn't ask if they'd give you blisters, which they would. If you asked me that, I wouldn't have recommended them.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: I'm like, oh, my word.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Ah, so you're blaming me, AI?
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Way to pass the buck over here. Come on, seriously, what is going on?
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Trying to apologize. Well, I'm sorry. Well, next time I'm like, well, that's no next time.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Get out of here.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: So sense that I'm like, you know, there's things that does well, but you can't just take it and run with it. No, you can't. That's. That's one of the things where it's. It's a great tool for business.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: But at the same time, it's.
It isn't everything, you know, and it's so evolved. But even then it's not, you know,
[00:29:27] Speaker A: it'll never, it'll never take away the creative juices that we've been given in our brains to do a really good job. Like, it's. We're constantly feeding it information, but that's information we've had to divulge ourselves.
And there's something about, like, yourself who's like, very creative. The stuff you do is like, phenomenal.
I don't think AI will ever have that eye, like, to see that. Like, I've seen some of your videos that you've done with the like, of the St. Helens trip where you did like all the cool stuff and it looked awesome.
I don't think AI, it doesn't have that. It doesn't have an eyeball to do that. It's not made that way. And so, yeah, I think people are using it way too much. And they're leaning a lot. They're leaning heavily upon it. And then there's mistakes happen and like, people will send an AI generated email and then you'll call them up and be like, what did you mean when you said this? And they were like, wait, what did I say again? You're like, oh, you didn't even write this blanket. Seriously.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's a.
And it's.
They've made it so it's like an easy button, but it's not a correct button. You know, everything.
It was designed to make you happy, not be right.
And I was like, that's an interesting distinction to make.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Early on I would use it more before I learned, before I knew better because it's like, oh, this is great. You don't know what you don't know. So you're like, yeah, this appears to be good. And then you do it. You're like, oh, wait a second, that's not true. Oh, that's not true. And you're like, oh gosh. And I think similar to like with cell phones coming out, like there's no boundaries out there. There's no. It's the wild west and you kind of have to self regulate that stuff and it's really tough for people. Oh yeah, you can just, you be a pacifier where you're just stuck with it. So if you're stuck on that and you have AI, it's like there's no parameters. I'm not saying for regulation but I am saying for like personal responsibility of like with intent, with, with how you work and live and to not be passive but to be intent. Like hey, you know what? Maybe I shouldn't be doing scrolling all the time. Yeah, maybe I should get outside or you know, it's. This is really good for. At the end of the day when I need to unwind and. Or whatever. Or for researching. Yeah, or whatever. But not something just to fill the void or to.
Yeah. Anyways, another rapid rabbit trail.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: I'd go down another rabbit trail but I think I just to keep going. I think on that part it kind of worries me for that next generation in regards to. Yeah, they lean so heavily upon it that they're stunting any sort of God given talents that they've been given.
And so it's like, it's the same thing about TikTok and scrolling and they're constantly on these things and their brains are just turning into mush and then because it's mush and they don't have any because they don't go outside and they don't be creative and they don't have say a hobby because they're all stuck on their phones.
Then they lean so heavily on AI and now AI is telling them everything that they should do and like how to live their life and like you need to do it this way or that way and they're not using. Like when I was a kid and I had an assignment to do for school, it was an encyclopedia. Like you went to the Britannica encyclopedia at the library because we couldn't afford them because they were so stinking expensive. And you got dropped off a Saturday and your parents said I'LL see you in a couple hours.
Maybe I shouldn't have said that because then I was unsupervised. But anyways, it doesn't really matter.
And you went there and you just delved in and you learned stuff and you were engaged in it and your brain hurt by the end of it. It's just a couple of clicks and it's there.
Then there's no work. That's why there's no work ethic anymore. Sorry, That's a runt. I've went out of here. It's like, seriously, people, come on. Where's all the workers?
[00:33:33] Speaker B: I mean. And I think that's the part where there's.
So I do this. I have a group of guys who have sons that we meet with, and I got a son. And so we hang out and stuff and we talk about fun.
But fun is like, there's type one and type two type fun.
And so when we have our. Our young boys and stuff, we're doing stuff. It's like we go on maybe a long hike or something, or we go out and we do something. It's like, I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. At the end, though. I'm like, how is. How was day? Today was the best day ever. Yet they complain the whole time.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Because.
So, for example, like, type one is maybe going on a roller coaster. You have fun and then you're done and you're on to the next thing. You don't really look back at, like, oh, I achieved something on a deeper level or anything like that.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: And I think that's where AI can come in, where you're just like, oh, that was fun. Or I learned this. But then you move on. He didn't really learn anything. It didn't really resonate. It didn't really.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:30] Speaker B: Really grasp anything. And so there's that part where you have to, you know, suffer, or to really not suffer, but, like, put the work in.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: For it to really take hold and to learn that stuff.
And so, like, when you go on these. These hikes and stuff or these adventures, it's like they're taking away stuff they'll remember forever. They're not going to remember that video or that thing that, you know, this. I remember any of that stuff. No, they will look back like, oh, I went fishing. Remember I got that fish?
[00:34:59] Speaker A: Remember I caught that big. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: So it's.
And I think just goes back to. Yeah. Live intentionally. You got to be. Put your own parameters in and use it for what it Is, it's great. But at the same time, yeah, it's
[00:35:13] Speaker A: not, it's not, it's, it's not everything. It's a wonderful tool.
I've had some blood pressure issues recently and it's like, I like to, I like to barbecue. Okay. I like to smoke a lot of meat, but I would just buy off the shelf, like rubs and spices to put on there, which are full of salt and full of bad stuff that isn't good for your heart. Hence the. Okay, I gotta figure something out. Well, I typed into chat, hey, I have blood pressure. Here's my issues. I'm trying to cut out salt. I love to barbecue. Can you help me with some sort of natural ingredients to make a nice rub? Boom, done.
Perfect. So, like, for things like that. Absolutely, by all means.
But still, take your son's fishing. At the end of the day, don't fish it on AI and say, you know, what type of rod do I need to catch this?
Just go and chuck a rod in. Just go, have fun, come on.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: And I think that's the distinction to make, is that there's things that's like, I just need this and I don't need to be an expert on it. I just need access to this information.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: And there's other stuff. It's like, oh, I don't need to ask. What is it like to go fishing exactly?
[00:36:27] Speaker A: You just go, that's the thing.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: That's the best way.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: That's the thing. Or you get home from work at night and you're like, okay, I've got chicken thighs, I've got potatoes. I've got this in the fridge. I've got that in the fridge. What can I make? You know, help a brother right here. And it does fantastic recipes. So yeah, that's not the bash it, but it's, it's good for things. But I think to your point, it is good. Like, especially like I've got, I've got a 16 year old, a 15 year old and an 8 year old.
And we need to get outside and enjoy creation and enjoy it for what it is. And you know, that's what we've been given to enjoy. But we're going to move on. Okay? We've. That rabbit hole has brought us all the way back. We're full circle.
Okay. You're working away, you're working hard.
What's one thing that you believe that you guys are doing that perhaps other companies might even twig onto and do and say five years from now,
[00:37:31] Speaker B: I would say going back to One of my favorite things that's meeting with the customer.
But with that I would say in five years they're going to realize how they can multipurpose content. Because there's a content engine. You know, when you're creating stuff digitally online, it's consumed a lot.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: And so I think realizing areas where you can really maximize. So for example, I was on a job site doing testimonial interview but when I was there, not only did I capture her experience, I got a quote, a one off quote I can use like here, give me one or two liners I can use.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: And then I did a photo shoot of her space and then I did a highlight video. Not her, but just her space. And then I featured her, her kitchen, her laundry room, her VAT. Independent. So from one job you have I don't know, maybe 10 pieces of content.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: And so you're, and it's being able to, you know, present it where you're like. Because time and aligning those things up is expensive. It takes a lot, it just takes a lot of effort. So when you're out there, I think really maximizing and how you can multipurpose those as well as, you know, I think that's from the capturing side. But the, I think more companies are also going to realize the benefit of appearing and being present on different platforms. But also importance of doing video work.
I think video in the past has been like, oh, I don't want to do video, I'm not an editor, you know and.
But that's so many ways, so many ways people consume their content. It doesn't matter what my opinion is on that. That's just what people do. So that's where people are going to be. I'm going to meet you there and I'm going to present something that you know that you're going to enjoy. And so I think one is getting tons of content when you can capturing multipurpose.
And then number two would be just get comfortable with editing and video and stuff like that. Because it's not going anywhere. It's, yeah, it's something that's happening and it'll continue on. So they will thank themselves today in five years from now if they start that.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah, big time.
You're a very gifted man. Like your content and stuff that you do is like it's top drawer. Like let's be honest, it's, it's.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: I appreciate that.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: That's why, that's why you're on the, that's why you're on the podcast. We only have the best on here.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Come on.
But okay, I share my good parts, I don't share the bad parts.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: Oh, well, maybe we should have a blooper reel at the end of this of all of that stuff with your personal cell phone number so we can call you with what we think of it. Yeah, but anyways, yeah, totally.
So you're phenomenal at what you do, but you've got to be continually learning and growing.
So my question is, what's a skill set that you're actively trying to improve?
Like even today? Like what's on top of mind?
[00:40:29] Speaker B: I.
I would say, you know, I mentioned I been doing video since fourth grade when I made my first video.
[00:40:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: I think with that is that it's one of those things you can continue to learn and never be a master at. And so I think with creativity and is specific to video. But that's just one layer that the top layer I'm really working on in addition to that is good storytelling.
And. Cause the storytelling is what really resonates and connects and gets that emotional connection with people. And so I love hearing stories, I love reading stories. And if I have to choose a way to get my content, it's going to be through a story. And that's also been proven through like a lot of the data analytics that we have is that people, those stories make a difference. And so being a better storyteller and that story doesn't have to be, you know, an hour long, 30 minute, 10 minute piece of content like that. It could be 30 seconds, it could be 15 seconds. It's just a short little story.
And there's just trying to really get good with that, you know, even looking at the past and be like, oh, that's a great one. That's gonna look great. And look back, I'm like, I can't believe I posted that out there.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: I don't know why I put that right there. Yeah, totally.
[00:41:42] Speaker B: But that's how you learn and continue to get better and stuff.
But I think really getting good with the storytelling aspect of the video part.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: So yeah, pulling that emotion part in is so important. So you've been doing this a while, but is there any one person who's kind of influenced you, who's made you think a different way, who's been like a sort of father figure in these things, all about marketing, even leadership or even media itself?
[00:42:11] Speaker B: There's.
I have a list of guys that I love. Anytime they post something or send an email out, I'm Like, I can't wait to read it. I think Donald Miller is one of my favorites. He has, his approach is, you know, the customer's the hero.
You're the guide to help them. So the story isn't about me. It's not about precision. It's about the customer's journey and solving their problem and making the focus on them.
And I've really enjoyed just, you know, those reminders from him. And because he's, he says, make it like a third grader can understand. It's not insulting, it's respecting. Hey, they have a. They have a moment in time, they can look at it and move on, and you want them to catch something. So he, his strategy and his approach has been really valuable. I've also liked Seth Godin. He has regular emails he sends out and he's a marketing. Probably one of the best marketing guys I've ever seen out there. And so his emails are just. I think I have a folder in my emails of just all saved because I don't. I feel bad deleting them because they're so good. Yeah. You want to hook them up.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: Like, oh man, I have so far to go. And so seeing, you know, Seth's go to. And then Ray Edwards, I. I just like listening to him. He's a very, He's a. I think he's actually just in Washington, just a next state below us. But he's got several methods. One is the pastor method for convincing and converting people. That's a great framework just for, you know, touching on these certain points and understanding the flow when you present information or present an argument, but like a, a customer's journey that you want to take them on. So it's a good framework. And I think those, those guys who offer the frameworks makes it. It's a good. They offer good tools because then as you're creating content, it's a bag of tricks that you can pull and be like, this is why I'm doing it.
It's not, it's not about emotion or what I think is cool. It's like, this is the journey. This way gets people to move. It's the top level, but you just basically arrange the components accordingly.
[00:44:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:17] Speaker B: So that way the end user gets the message received and hopefully buys. So.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Yeah, totally awesome. Well, there you go.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: There's a lot more out there, but I think there's. And I think that's the cool thing about online stuff is that, you know, YouTube, once you get an algorithm, it's like, well, try this, try this. There's a lot of guys writing great content, but those guys are my favorites, for sure.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: Okay, awesome. When you look back in your career, then with all that mentoring and all that different stuff, what's. What's one thing. If you could pick one thing out of the career, what's. What is it that you're most proud of?
[00:45:01] Speaker B: I think building the engine.
And I say that, like, because when you're creating stuff online, it's easy to go and say, oh, I'm going to chase this trend, or I want to create a viral video like this. But that's just one element of the engine. So, you know, I like to think that, you know, look back and see some success and seeing the cause and effect, the engine essentially getting you down the road and be like, hey, I did this and I got over here, I got these results. And so being able to create, like.
I don't know if you ever heard of, like, pillars of content where you create everything fits in these. And so creating that and then creating this journey, so creating this, essentially the customer's journey, where you look back and you're like, they start here never hearing you or never seeing you and being able to nurture them all the way to where not only they buy, but they look back and they say, thank you. And then they turn around and become essentially part of your marketing team. Because they're so excited that they go and tell your friend.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Their friend, oh, yeah, hugely. That's awesome.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: When you see that, it's like, that's a cool journey and it works, you know, and because I think when you go to the trade shows, you go around and you see somebody and they're like, hey, hey, you helped me, and my life is better now because of that. And it's. It's pretty cool to. To there. I went to a conference in one of the forums, meetups over, I think, in the East Coast. Anyways, one of the guys had showed up there, and I hadn't talked to him maybe five years, and he said, hey, can I have lunch with you? Because we're sitting during the break time having lunch. He's like, you might not remember me, but he said, I go, no, I remember you.
You're able to connect. He's like, I just want to say thank you. And so I think looking back and seeing that to make a difference, I think has been pretty rewarding.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: So that's so cool. That's awesome. Good stuff.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: Sometimes you think, hey, does this make an impact? Is it even worth it?
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
Is what I do even yeah, no, it is. It is. It's helping a lot of people for sure. Well, final question, because we've had a lot of fun, we're going to wrap it up.
What would be some advice that you would give? People say they're starting out in the industry. They want to start out and say, you know, obviously, live in a digital, digital world. What's one bit of solid advice that you would give them to encourage them even as they begin their journey?
[00:47:41] Speaker B: I would say, I would say that it is a journey and for them to see it as a journey. I think when, for example, when I look at Ray Edwards or Seth Godin or Donald Miller, I'm like, oh, those guys are so much further than me. I will never be that good. Yeah, but it's like, no, you just take a step. You take a step and you just go and go with a willingness to learn. And it's okay not to have all the answers. It's okay not to know everything. And you'll do something you'll love today. And tomorrow you'll look back and be like, I can't believe I posted that. But you'll say, today I will be better. Today I will be better. And so digital is not going anywhere. It's going to be around. And so if you're unsure, I say take that first step and realize it is a first step. I'm very 10,000.
And it's a great journey.
[00:48:31] Speaker A: Baby step to begin with.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Five years from now, you'll be glad you took it and invested in it.
And one little subcategory, get good with video because there you go.
Video is important.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: That's the way. That's where we're at. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate.
[00:48:48] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Appreciate this conversation. And that's a wrap. That's a wrap for the cutting edge install podcast this time. If you've enjoyed it, be sure to follow us. Subscribe Like It, Share it, Leave a quick review if you would like to be in the hot seat and be asked a lot of questions and, you know, have a nice conversation with an Irishman, then drop us a line, say, hey, I want to be on that. These episodes drop every other Thursday at 8am Pacific State time for more about OmniCubed. You can find out more about us here at OmniCubed.com we make tools, sell fabricators, install colors and we want to make people safe at all times. And from the both of us, I say cheerio and stay safe.
