Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Well, good day, everyone, and welcome to the Cutting edge Install podcast brought to you by Omni Cubed, where innovation meets insulation and quite literally could be anything in between. I am your host, Merv Campbell, and it's an absolute pleasure to have you with us. If you're listening, if you're watching, if you're catching up on some of these, it's great to have you here. What is this podcast all about? What's the why? Well, we're celebrating the pros, we're, we're celebrating installers, we're celebrating the experts and the game changers and the movers and shakers. And we have a mover and a shaker with us this morning. We're going to dive into stories, we're going to share insights, we're going to see some high points, some low points, and hopefully everything in between. We're going to have fun, keep you awake, keep everybody energized and going.
So whether you're on the job, whether you're on the road, or you're just looking to stay sharp, you have found the, the right place. So let's get cracking. Rich, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
Tell us a little bit about yourself, tell us your story and we'll go from there. My friend.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Fantastic. Marvel. It's been forever since you and I have bumped into each other.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: It has. It's been way too long and I.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Have a feeling, I think it was overseas when we probably met either at Merrimack or in the UK last time we saw each other. So welcome across.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Yes, there you go. Thank you.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Briefly, about me, I don't want to bore everybody, been in the industry over 10 years.
Previous to that, I was always in construction in some manner or another. My grandfather started a flooring company. We grew it to three locations.
After that I went out on my own and actually started a water conservation plumbing company.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: And oh wow.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: And that's kind of the sexy way of saying we made toilet repair parts, you know.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Okay, there you go.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Keep it clean. One claim to fame right from you being across the pond.
We made a device that allowed a regular toilet to be converted into a two button toilet.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: And oh wow.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: So 20 bucks, depot, Costco, Menards, it was phenomenal and sold after four or five years.
I took a couple of years off to hang out with my young daughter, which was amazing, and was recruited into our industry, which I will never leave by a headhunter, to run laser products. And I'm sure all of your listeners are familiar with laser products.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Yep, absolutely.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: So. So that's really where I cut my teeth in the industry. You know, spent about five years there, traveling to shows, getting out with templaters, getting out with installers. Right. I know this is a. A part of the people. Right. And nothing I loved more than going out on jobs and really learning that way. So spent much of my time doing that outside of the office.
Yeah, we sold laser products, which was great. Then I started up a commercial multifamily install company. So we did national installs across the country, and those three years were probably the least amount of sleep I got in my entire life. Oh, it is a challenge, you know, remotely managing 300 unit installs. Right.
Oh, man. So.
So that was fun. But in the meantime, while at Laser Products, I was always a vendor of the Rockheads, had always known about them, had loved what the group did, and the current executive director of the Rockheads was stepping down, and we found each other and wow. You know, and literally within five minutes, I was so right. And so I loved everything, you know, about what they're doing. Right. I mean, really, you know, the one sentence nutshell, the Rock is just trying to make shops better. Right. And that's. That's what we do. And we've got a couple of different ways that we can get into, you know, of how we did that. I don't really want this to be a Rockheads commercial. Yeah, But. But, you know, that's when you cut through all the website stuff and all my check marks behind me and all that stuff.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: Fifteen years the Rockheads have been around, and it's really just to make shops operate a little better, make their employees happier, safer. Right. And that's what we do.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah. It's for the people. And I think that's. That's something that in these day and age is so important because a lot of times people are treated just like a number or they're like they're indisposable or they're disposable.
And sure, there's more down the street, but I think what a common theme in all these podcasts is a lack of people and a lack of good people. And so when you have a good employee, you need to do all you can to hold onto them because you may not get one like them. And so groups like this really, really do help. So initially. So you met the top guy, you had the chin wag, he's stepping down.
You're in the job a day or two. What's your first impressions of the group?
How has Your vision evolved after stepping into that leadership role?
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Sure. So that's a great question. So Laser products, I had 76 employees, so I would kind of direct people to do things.
When I got to Laser Products, there were two of us Rockheads. There were two of us. Okay. You know, I kind of went back to my old days, which was, all right, I have to do some work here. I got to roll up my sleeves, and this is, you know, I'm it. So that was the biggest change for me. It was kind of taking a step backwards in a lot of things that I did. And that's what. That's what I absolutely loved about it, too, was really getting into the problems that the shops had and how we could help them as a. As a collective, really, you know, that was the biggest transition for me.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Awesome. We're gonna come to some of those challenges, but before we get there, you've worked now in leadership, you've worked in trades, taking all of that together. How have those experiences kind of shaped and molded you, how you would lead and support fabricators today?
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the biggest thing. And you'd mentioned this before when we chatted, and I thought, Corey, quite a bit about this, because this is just a great question.
I think the biggest change that. That I see or that I've experienced is when I was in management and when I was a young buck, I thought I had to knew. Know everything. Right. And somebody asked me a question, oh, geez, I better know it or I'm going to be in trouble.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Now I take more pleasure in directing someone to an expert who can really answer their question than me knowing it. Right. I may know 70% of the answer, but if I know somebody who knows 100, I would much rather do that 100%. Working with the trades and just seeing, you know, whether it's a CNC operator, you know, or a salesman at a shop or, you know, it doesn't matter.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: I may think I know a lot, but I just really know that the scratch in the surface, and that's where I just really enjoy connecting people rather than trying to do everything myself.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's one advantage in the stone industry above others, is the willingness to freely give that information.
There's a lot of other places out there where the guy is afraid to give any of it away because, well, if the guy beside me knows, then I could be sent away and no one would need me. Whereas in the stone industry, it's one big massive family, and there's family arguments within that family. And there's conflicts. But you know what?
At the very end of it, we're all a family. We're striving for the same thing. And there's enough of the cake to go around that we can help each other. And the more that we can encourage that, the better that is for the industry itself. And everyone else kind of looking in, being jealous and going, wow, those guys kind of have it all together. Like, how do I get a part of that? That's like some of the young people that we're trying to, like, entice into the stone industry. And the more that there's the camaraderie, the fellowship, the getting together, it's just. It helps so much even for that next generation. So kind of from your vantage point, then, kind of seeing it from 30,000ft.
Obviously, there's challenges in everyone's job.
But fabricators, let's take them to begin with. What would you say is their biggest challenge, like today, say, for nance, sort of 20 years ago?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I'm going to be a little bit of Captain Obvious here, but the tariffs are driving everybody insane.
It's so hard.
As we're taping this, it's October.
This is when shops are business planning for next year.
And think about what a challenge it is to be business planning, when you have no idea what your costs are going to be. Right. And it's, you know, it's so, you know, and now we've got the new one coming in with, you know, 50% tariffs and quotas on imported courts.
You know, I've got business owners that are just pulling their hair out. They don't know whether to hire 20 people or fire 20 people, right?
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: I've never seen this degree of uncertainty, and again, I'm being a little obvious here, but our guys are living it every single day.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
There's roller coasters every day. It used to be you kind of had the normal up and down throughout the year, and that would go in, like, quarters. Now it's like, every day, and it's hard to keep guys motivated, to keep them, so to speak. And it takes advocates like yourself and other people to come alongside and be that. It's okay. We're gonna get through. We just have to.
We just gotta, at some point, grin and bear it and just push through this. And the other side, the light is gonna shine. It's gonna be great, but we've just gotta get there.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, in our memberships, there's 120 or so shops in the Rockheads Okay.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: As with kind of the whole industry. Right. For the last couple of years, business has been rough. Right. I mean, you've had to fight for every dollar. If you're an order taker, you're losing. Right. You need salesmen out there. So our shops have all kind of dug in. They've trained themselves. They've gotten better at that. And now, finally, we're starting to see the market turn.
Our group, on average is up probably 8%.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: And 26 is, is looking like it's going to be even a better year than 25 for most of our shops. So, you know, you've got this pendulum that's, you know, oh, we need sales, we need sales, we need sales. Now we're starting to see it creep back to, oh, capacity. We need capacity.
Yeah.
So, you know, that's part of the challenge too, is just a, you know, a shift in kind of the priorities of the business is, you know, is another thing, and I alluded to it briefly, but, you know, my number two is transitioning the sales folks to being more aggressive. Right.
Either to retrain them and give them the tools to go from order taker to sales, or unfortunately, at times, you know, you must hire new people that are aggressive. The good news is, and I've seen this across the country, you may have a salesperson that's an order taker. Well, they're going to be an awesome customer service rep. Yeah. Right. Or they're going to be a great scheduler. You know, there's, there's other roles within the business where they'll excel, but the shops have to make this transition because, you know, with, with the Internet and Facebook leads and everything that's going on, everybody's fighting for that retail dollar and for the builder dollar. And you've got to be more sales focused.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, totally. Absolutely.
Kind of off topic and off script. You're a very upbeat, jovial guy. Anyone that talks to you, they come away with a smile on their face. When you're talking to these people, and they are, they're worrisome, they're depressed, they're wondering, like, how do you kind of build them up and encourage them?
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great question.
I've got to think about that for one second. Right. You know, one of, one of the advantages of a Rockhead is you're always in it together.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: So there's no shops in our group that are out on an island. Right. You know, oh, this is happening to me, not to anybody. Else there's always camaraderie in there where, you know, if someone is down in the dumps, well, you know, there's others around them that can help them out. And, you know, and I think it's the. It's the not being isolated. Right. And that's, you know, not in our industry, but in most other industries, you know, these owners are in their offices and they're not talking to anybody outside their company. Right. And it's very easy, as you say, to kind of get sucked into this woe is me thing, but when you've got others and others are saying, hey, you know, we just had another big wave of multifamily come in, or this just happened, it gives people a little bit more energy to, you know, to kind of keep going on.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And I think to this point, I think it's good for us because men are very proud. We tend not to say if we're struggling or things are difficult, we'd rather just keep it locked in here and then it eats us up inside. But I would say from my perspective, it's always been good to talk to someone in the stone industry, have a confidant that you could talk with or someone that you jive with. And so going to these rockheads or some of these other times that men get together, seek out those who are commonly minded, like you, who you can pick up the phone, you could, you know, if you're close enough, grab a beer together.
The old saying, a problem shared is a problem halved is so true. And I think in our day and age, when everything is so up and down, up and down, up and down, it's good to have sometimes a friend who's kind of even keel to draw alongside. So if you're listening to this and you're struggling, please, you know, talk to somebody. I'm sure Rich would love if you picked up the phone and talked to him. Likewise me, I might not even know who you are. But hey, listening ear at times is great, but.
Okay, back to questions. That was a sidebar. Just random question, but it was good. On the flip side, you know, we're talking about tariffs are hard, we're saying things are difficult.
What are some opportunities in the market that fabricators should be kind of leaning into and even learning more aggressively, even today?
[00:15:37] Speaker B: So I've got two.
One is again, going to be a little bit obvious.
AI is going to be amazing and is already starting to be amazing for our shops. Right? The ability to take mundane tasks from people, the ability to react faster to customers, to schedule more efficiently so your crews aren't driving around all over the place. Everything's routed more effectively. There are so many advantages that I can provide. Everybody, it's, it's such a negative.
Everybody thinks that AI is just out there to eliminate positions. And that's not it at all. It's, it's, you know, it's like the computers back in the 70s. It's to get rid of the boring, repetitive, easy stuff and let people who have people skills do what they're best at.
And so AI is every conversation at the Rockheads, people are talking about it. There are so many amazing applications that are just starting to be written, you know, for our industry where we're going to see a revolution here. And I'm going to go off script here a little bit too, because this really supports my whole thesis on AI. And the Rockheads is all in on AI right now. There's 8,000 shops out there. Right. And you know is right, you know, 8 to 10,000.
Eventually the bad actors, the dry cutters, the ones that are causing silicosis, the ones that osha, the lawsuits, they're going to go away.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: And. And once that happens, we'll go from 8,000 shops to 3,000 shops.
All of that volume is there for the good guys to get.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: So when I think of an AI agent that makes a job more efficient, I'm not at all thinking that that guy, you know, we're going to fire that guy. It's okay. We're growing at 20%, 30% a year. Where do we reallocate him? What does he do? And yes, and that's what gets me excited about AI is just better configuring the org chart for growth.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And I think now is a time to structure your company and your people when things are maybe a little bit slower. So where you'd thought of, oh, I'd love to train this guy, but things are so like, we're so busy. Like, don't hold back, get it done now. Because there's a wave of work coming that we're gonna be busy again if everything pans out how we think it is.
And so taking the time to get things in place, like SOPs and a shop, like operating procedures, like take time, document them, because Lord willing, we're going to be hiring people. And if we're busy, we want to be able to train someone, but also hand them a document and say everything you kind of need to know, it's there.
AI can help you with that.
So there's things that we can really be, I think, be honing in on right now as owners of companies and even employees. If you're listening and you're an employee, go to your boss and say, hey, I have a desire to learn X, Y, and Z. You know, can I do that?
And he'd be a foolish boss to say, no, but just keep at it. And it's. We always have a saying here. Squeaky wheel always gets the grease.
So if he says no the first time, don't throw up your arms and huff about it. Go back a second and third time. But I think today the big thing is like, learning, like, growth.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Whether that's as a company, whether that's as an individual or whatever it might be. So, no, that's cool. Awesome.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: I've got a great example of that, too.
We have probably 20 shops now that have retrained. Right. You talk about raising your hand. I want to do something, retrain their sales force to do in home sales. Right. Bring the samples with them, get the clothes right there. And those shops have been amazingly successful. Right. People are just naturally more relaxed in their home. They don't feel like you're selling them. Right. You're just a trusted advisor. And a lot of those shops are seeing, like, twice as high average ticket prices because their guard is down. Right. And then you kind of throw in the millennials who don't really like to leave home anyway. Right.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: So. So to your point, we've got a whole new set of workforce out there that's doing that rather than waiting in the showroom.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's good. That's awesome.
That kind of goes then with my next question that I have for you in regards to what's something that you see as a common thing that maybe shops get wrong they underestimate when it comes to scaling businesses or staying competitive.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Sure, sure. Well, one of the things we've all heard forever is if you do big box work, you're selling your soul to the devil. Right. There's just many shops that don't want to scale using big box. And there are absolutely good ways that you can work with a depot, a Costco, a Lowe's, and make fantastic margin and not have it completely disrupt your operations.
So I'd like to just get out there and say, you know, if you've been approached, don't automatically say no when depot calls.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Think through it, make sure it makes sense, and, you know, that's where to the rock heads could help you out. Right. We've got probably 30% of our shops do some type of big box.
And I'm not even talking about joining the Rock heads. Right. If you're considering it, give me a call and I'll connect you with the shop and, and they'll be able to advise you. You know, there's, there's, you know, I mean, drive time and store volume and you know, there's certain things you can look at. But it's, it is a great way to scale and it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to go bankrupt doing it.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's good, that's good. Helpful advice.
Rockheads. The group places sort of emphasis on benchmarking and performance metrics.
In your opinion, how does access to the right data really impact a shop's growth and the trajectory of that shop?
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So we have a saying right, throughout the entire group.
You can't manage what you don't measure. Right. So how do I give you a poor performance review if I don't know how well you're really doing? Right. And so we push that out.
We have multiple, many shops where every single employee, 200 employees have some type of bonus related to their performance.
So it's not just hourly, it's not just overtime, it is bonus based businesses. And obviously to be able to do that, you've got to be able to measure things. Right. And so we live and die, you know, accountability. I mean, people want to be held accountable and it's hard to do if you're not measuring anything.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: And so with our benchmarking program, we usually get about 80 to 90 shops submit, you know, detailed information, operational, financial.
We'll produce a report.
Them versus all Rockheads.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: And then to your point, we also run, say you're a $5 million shop. Well, I want to show you the metrics of what $10 million shops are doing.
So, you know, all right, I got to tighten this up, right? You know, oh, I need some help there. That's where I love the benchmarking is to help chart out that growth path for members in the group.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's awesome. That's helpful.
I remember back a few years ago kind of talking to someone even about this and they said, have you ever tried to lose weight? And I'm like, well, yeah. Hello, have you seen me? I have.
And they said, well, how would you do that? And I said, well, you know, obviously portion sizes and yada, yada, yada. And they said, well, what is it that would motivate you the most? And you would Say, well, it's standing on a scale and seeing that number decrease. And he says, that's what you've got to remember. There's a scale, there's a number. And how do you.
You don't know you're losing weight unless you stand on that scale. You can go by your feelings. You can put your finger up to the wind and go, well, I think I am. But until you actually stand there and get a BEN benchmark or a number to work from, you don't know.
And so those benchmarks, those numbers, those, you know, all the spreadsheet and data that, like, the finance team can produce are worth their weight in gold. Especially these days when we don't really know what's happening, where the trajectory is. The more information we can have at our fingertips, the better it is to make better decisions. And we go by that data. And sometimes it's good, and sometimes the data is good, but the outcome is not what we had projected. But at least you can go to bed at night with your head on the pillow going, I did as much as I could with the knowledge that I had. So, no, that's very helpful.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: And then to your earlier point about getting out of your office. Right. Whether you're at an SFA event or an NSI event or TICE or whatever, that's where your network now. Right. Make some friends. Right?
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: And when you do get your report from your finance guy, pick up the phone and see if, you know, $8 a square foot for install is a good number or not.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Right. You know, Exactly.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: That's where your network can really help out.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And it's.
It's good for guys to just freely give information.
I have a saying here that I got from an actor one day, but he was like, you never see a U haul behind a hearse.
As in, you're never gonna take anything with you to your grave, and it's better to give it away now than to take it to the grave and it lost forever.
We have an engineer, two engineers in our company, and they just pour into the next generation. They're not afraid of. These guys could actually be better than me. They could know more than me, but they're like anything that I have learned and know over the years. Here you go, and you talk about a partnership and, like, younger people just soaking it in and learning and growing and, oh, it's just music to my ears. That's really awesome. It's good. But you won't do that if you're stuck in your office.
Gotta get out. Got to get out. As hard as it is, you've always gotta have that. We have a sand. We have a lot of sands around here, but one, it's called the coffee shop effect, where there's times you've just gotta get out of your office and maybe it should go to a coffee shop, maybe it should take some of your employees for a meal. Maybe it should go to a fellow worker or a fellow businessman who's round the corner and you say, hey, you wanna spend a few minutes together and just being able to talk to one another.
Communication is number one. It's key in both ways. Yeah.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: So it's mental health and business acumen. Right. It checks so many boxes for you.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Obviously people have habits, whether that be good habits, bad habits.
In leadership, what mindsets have you seen consistently in the most successful fabricators across the network?
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah, so if you recall, EOS was a big deal, you know, entrepreneurial operating system.
It's a way to run meetings, it's a way to communicate. You know, there's a bunch of saying, you know, traction was the book and, and we have a lot of our shops not necessarily following SEOs to the TE, but using some of the practices. And, and again, it is.
Everyone hates meetings. Right, but you can do meetings. Right? Right. You know, if you're doing that, you know, a one hour meeting once a week, man, you should absolutely be able to trim that to a half an hour. Right. Everybody's ready. Everybody go, go, go. You're just identifying issues. You're not talking about the weekend. That is a distinct trait of most of our owners. They're running morning huddles or whatever EOS word you want to call it, but they're passing along extremely clear messaging to their troops and then their troops are doing the same. Right. And so that in our industry is, is absolutely, is absolutely the number one characteristic of, of our successful members is the big boss being able to push down and then the, and then the real people doing the work are doing it.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Yeah.
We've got tier meetings here every morning, so we do stretches, then we go to our different departments and then the managers of those departments basically lay out the day.
They'll hear any issues from the day before, they'll address them, kind of give the benchmark for the day ahead, the top three that we're going to try to achieve and it's done. And they used to last, I laugh at you saying an hour to half an hour.
Ours would last about 45 minutes to begin with. And I Think now they're down till about 10 minutes max.
But hey, you talk about people engaged in those 10 minutes and then being able, being a part of the team and we'll tell them where seals are, where this and that is. And there's no hidden secrets they're not like worried about. Everything's there, it's all given to them.
And they talk about spurring people on. It's been a real blessing. And then you're not waiting for that weekly meeting if there was an issue or. Well, his door's always shut and he's on the phone so I can't get a hold of him. Yada, yada, yada, it's taken care of there in the end. And that goes for safety too. Like we have a portion where is there a safety issue we need to be aware of and all of those things. So yeah, those tear meetings are.
They're definitely.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: Just think about reworks, right? Reworks are just a killer in our industry.
Everybody needs to be talking to each other, right? Whether it's a, a template review after the templators get back or it's a red zone right before everything goes out. Let's just do one more chat to make sure everybody's got everything they need. There's so many things like that that are important.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Oh yeah, totally. They kind of carrying on then.
How do we encourage people are they're down in the dumps, they're stuck in the mud.
How do we encourage people in the industry to perhaps adapt new techniques the like of you guys, like bringing in, benchmarking, bringing in, you know, all the different areas that they have to do.
How do we adapt those things? How do we even get them to purchase tools like what we have at Omni Cubed or like technical things that they need to do? How would you encourage people to do that?
[00:31:15] Speaker B: So by far the most effective way that we facilitate that is myself or a salesman. A vendor can talk to their blue in the face and nobody likes to be sold to.
But when another shop calls them or talks to them and says it's a game changer, you've got to do this, then that is what has always moved the dial within our group.
It's testimonials, it's case studies, it's peer to peer.
We've switched to WhatsApp as a communication device. We make WhatsApp groups and we put for example, 10 shops into one group that geographically are dispersed across the country. No competition and we just let the magic happen. We, we just sit back and, and hey, let's. Everybody, let's see your quotes. Let's compare everybody's quotes. Let's.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Let's throw our financials up there and look at everybody's financials. And it's.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's amazing.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: And all we've done is kind of put people together.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's where, God, I would say 90% of the goodness of our organization comes really from us just putting people together.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
I think the battery died in my camera and so I'm going to. Just two seconds, I'll replace it.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: There's always something. I think we're back.
Yeah, there we go.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: All right.
There we go.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: I just kept going pretending like your camera was fine.
[00:32:57] Speaker A: Oh, I appreciate that. That's awesome.
We haven't got many more left, but we'll rattle through them.
Giving people advice.
I'm sure you're just like me where sometimes you give people advice and you kind of know, you know, they're either listening to you or they're not.
And it can be a little bit depressing. But what advice or framework would you give to like say a shop owner who feels stuck or they're overwhelmed and their day to day operations, it just feels as like weighing really heavy on them.
[00:33:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
It's a tough one. Right. And I'm going to kind of come back to our general theme. Right. You got to get out. Right. I love your coffee shop idea. Right. They've got to talk to other people. I mean that, that's how they're going to feel better. They're going to see the light. Right. Everybody's been through the same thing. You know, in our group we see shops can, can, you know, it takes years, but shops can get to 7 million in revenue and then for some reason pushing to 10 is like near impossible and they're just stuck and, and that's one of the things we offer is I know all of our shops that have blown through that number now those guys that are struggling and they've been at the same for years now, have someone they can talk to and push them through there. So, you know, I hate that, you know, it's kind of a broken record, but it's so important. I mean, yeah, you got to go to the shows, you gotta network, you know. And what we find too is the older generation, the gray hairs like me, weren't necessarily great at it, but their kids are better and their kids are going to the shows and reaching out. I don't know if that's a Benefit of social media or why.
But we're optimistic. We've got a lot of shops that are kind of in that transition, and we love the kids. We can't wait for the old people to get out because the kids are doing things the right way.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think we live in a day and age where a lot of gray hairs are old school, where it's pen and paper. They take orders that way. It's how they do things. Whereas now the young whippersnappers, you know, they have an order written up in like, two seconds, and it's basically shipped before the person even agrees to buy it. You're like, whoa, okay. But I 110% agree with the shows. And that's something that's kind of been sad to see in the last couple of years, is the decline in attendance. It shows. Yeah, you have. You have the good old Faithfuls. Like, you have the buddies that you see every show, but the new guys, the people who are perhaps inquisitive or wondering in your company, take them to the show.
It's so awesome. I can't tell you how awesome it is to stand at a booth and the workers walk past and they're, like, drilling all over the tools. And they're like, we need that. We need that tool. We need that tool.
And then they go and they get their owner, and he comes over and he's like, ah, we'll be all right without it. And you're like, dude, listen to your people, please.
And it's.
I think that's one thing I tend to. I like to tell even the owners of stone shops, like, listen to your fabricators.
They are the boots on the ground. They're doing it every day.
These men and women are some of the most talented craftsmen out there.
Like, you see some of the kitchens, the bathrooms now, it's like, on walls, it's on floors, it's outside buildings.
It used to be just your kitchen. Now it's your outdoor patio and your barbecue area, which is a whole different other ball game. But the skill that these men and women have are.
It's unbelievable. So you want to do everything you can to keep them. So we're talking today, but obviously, Lord willing, will be able to keep at this for another number of years. 5, 10, 15, 20. Who knows?
What shifts or trends do you see coming that we need to be talking a lot more about today to gear ourselves up for that?
[00:37:21] Speaker B: So I've kind of alluded to them, but, you know, technology's coming fast, right?
We've always been behind. Right. Whether it's metals or what industry you want, we're gonna catch up. Right. And we've always been what, whether it's 20 years or whatever.
So we are going to be in this mad dash to catch up to the other industries. And so you've just gotta be open minded to that. Right. And you know, that's probably the biggest change. AI is gonna help with that. Right. So you're gonna be able to use that as a tool to get from A to B. But, but again that's, that's the biggest thing. I don't see any, I mean, besides the bad actors, as we like to call them, going away and now having all of that revenue that's coming to the other shops. Besides that, it really is just all about technology. There's no, you know, there's printed courts and there's, you know, some, some cool new materials coming. There's some nominal innovation in CNC and robots, but it's, everything else is just going to change the way we do business. I mean I'm, I'm seeing cameras now in, on the shop floor. That the cameras aren't tracking people, they're tracking the individual pieces.
Right. So at any time everybody knows where everything. It's just, it's amazing how quickly that stuff is happening and it's, it's stuff that other industries have had forever.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: And just to give you a little bit of ammunition on that, we had a Rockhead event in Greenville, South Carolina.
Beautiful, beautiful town. We picked it because the BMW track was there. Oh, nice. So our members got to drive BMWs, but then they got to see the plant and how amazing.
You talk about innovation and, and knowing what everything's doing and how fast it takes. I mean that is pretty cool. That will really open your eyes of what the next five to 10 years is going to look like.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: Totally.
I love to hear, and I'm sure you do too, of fabricators going to other fabricator shops.
We produce tools like we're omnicubed. We're not producing granite or any of that. We're helping, getting the tools to help the guys install.
And so one thing we love to do is take our employees to other machine shops and they see how things are done. They maybe see, oh, actually our shop is really good. We pride ourselves on cleanliness, I'll happily say that. And we're very good at it. But there are things from other shops that you can learn and implement in your own and vice versa. Like we have people come here and Again, it's communication and openness and just a willing to stop being stuck in the mud. Like, there's different ways to do things.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: What a great point. Right? We talk about, like, going to a coffee shop. Yeah. No, go to someone else's shop, spend a half a day, then invite them to your shop.
You're gonna have full notepads full of notes. Right? From someone's shop.
[00:40:32] Speaker A: Yep. Absolutely. And not being afraid of. What are they gonna see? Are they gonna steal my idea? No. There is enough of this cake for everybody, let me tell you.
And we have to think that way and not just be greedy and think, well, it's all about me. Cause it's not.
It's a family.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: And at the end of the day, we all cut rectangles. Right?
[00:40:58] Speaker A: Exactly. Big time. Polish them up, Rockheads. It continues to grow. It continues to support everything that's going on.
But how do you guys support, like, shops that are facing more tech and workforce challenges?
[00:41:16] Speaker B: So, great question. So we've got multiple partners within the group. That's that specifically go after that. Because again, during COVID that was everybody's issue. I can't hire enough people. I. I can't retain them. I can't find the right people. So we have vendor partners within our group that are. We've got a headhunter that only works in the stone industry.
Right. We, you know, we've got an amazing software system called whale, which makes SOPs for onboarding people. Right. And so we've provided a handful of different tools to help with the resource planning and to bring employees in. We've got, you know, I don't even know what they're called, but it's a. It's a company that, you know, provides benefits and, you know, all of the extra stuff that, you know, a shop may not even think of.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: Now they've got a resource to be able to help the employees out that way, whether it's for days or whatever. So, yeah, we. We loaded up on that stuff, you know, kind of during COVID when everybody was just going crazy.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah. No, that's good. And I think to your point, at the very beginning of this, it's not up to the owner to know every single thing about every single thing.
There are professionals like payroll, like HR issues. There's, like, onboarding.
There's many, many different companies out there that can help you with that and actually take stress off that. Guess what? You can go talk to other owners and you can get out of your shop and you're not overwhelmed with paperwork. And all the bureaucracy that go, oh, it's yeah, spread the load, thin it out a little bit and it's okay, it's good kind of going on from that. When you've talked to these people and even thinking about yourself, what's one lesson, if you want to tell or maybe not, that you've learned the hard way and how has it helped you become a better leader?
[00:43:17] Speaker B: Yeah, good question.
For me personally, I had a revelation about a year ago that I could be a better leader. And I don't remember exactly what triggered it, but I kind of started going down this path of I'm just not doing a good job, I'm not hitting my metrics, my employees aren't as happy as they should be. And for the first time in my life, I'm an old 57.
Right. We hired an executive coach to help me figure things out and I'd never used one before. I never, I barely even heard of what executive coaches were and you know, spent three, four months with an outsider just kind of helping me get better at work. And I.
It was 3k a month. I mean, it was nominal, right? Maybe 3,300amonth.
[00:44:11] Speaker A: Uh huh.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: But the benefit I got out of that, the happiness. Right, that, yes. It's just, it, it had such a great trip. My employees are so much happier now. I mean, it was such a great investment. And, and I never would have, I don't, I never even would have thought of it. I mean, my board of directors is the one who, who brought it up.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Set you up with it and got it going.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, they saw it too, right? You know, so that's awesome. But, but yeah, it's. I, I think that that would be my one piece for me personally.
And you've brought up a couple times and we've talked about people being down in the dumps and not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And executive coaches, 70% process an organization, 30% psychiatrist.
It really helps.
[00:45:02] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Of course it helps. No, that's, that's very good. And it's okay at times to say I need help.
That's actually a sign of a good manager. It really is like admitting that, hey, I can do better, let's work through this, let's get better for the betterment of everybody else. So that's awesome.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: Including myself.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And you are, you're bettering yourself and Lord willing, it'll last into the future and into retirement and you can take it wherever you need it to go.
That's so exciting. My friend. That's so good.
So, kind of last question.
We want to kind of go off on a high note, but what is it? What's getting you out of bed every morning? What's exciting you the most about where this industry's going, where it's heading?
Not just as a professional, but anyone who knows Rich, he cares about people and he cares about people that are in this industry. So what's exciting you about where we're going?
[00:46:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it, it's a confluence of a bunch of different things.
[00:46:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: It's, it's again, consolidation of shops. Right. You know, I mean, what if you see my third check mark, it says industry stewardship. I.
When I see these silicosis cases come out and I hear about the lawsuits and I hear about the million dollar OSHA fines and the shops that are killing these people, I see now that that's all going to change and it's going to change here pretty rapidly. So one thing that really makes me happy is, is knowing that that's all going to go away here. Not 100%, but gosh, it's going to be so much better than it is now.
I can't wait for that to happen.
And then, you know, this is as, as you guys know especially, this is a really tough business to lug around earth, all of the different things we do. And there's so many great products coming out. I saw a robot.
It was, it was video, it was sent to me today that was climbing a customer stairs with the remote control, delivering a piece of stone. Right. There's, there's so many great technological advances that are helping people do their job better in our industry. Right.
You know, nobody wants back pains, right? My, no, it's funny, my, my family business.
My dad had his knees. No. My dad had his hips replaced. My uncle had his back fused and my other uncle had his knees replaced. Right. You know. Oh, boy. You don't want that.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: No, you do not. Absolutely not. You do not. Well, thank you so much, Rich. It's been a pleasure. That's a wrap on this episode of the Cutting Edge Installs. If you've enjoyed it, Follow us, subscribe, Leave a quick review, share it with your crew.
For more information about us, you can go on omnicube.com about Rich, go on the Rockhead script, and until I see you all again, cheerio, Stay safe and take care. Bye Bye.
